surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

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surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby cantoni » 17 Jan 2005, 19:52

Hi all,

My name is Carlos and I'm peruvian of italian origin, but living in France.
My ancestors was:

- Felice Cantoni, born in Italy unknown birthyear and italian place, and the wife:
- Cecira(Cesira) Piazzi;
they came in Perù, Callao Port, Lima capital, in 1892 with two sons: Emilio born probable in Trieste (4 september 1889) and Nicolas (Nicola) born probable in Messina (1890).

I know only that had an italian Circus property... In Perù is not possible the search why the Archivies about immigration is not available....

But I find in USA an homonymus:

-Felice Cantoni
Arrival Date: 12 Dec 1872
Estimated Birth Year: 1845
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Le Havre, France and London, England
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Italy
Ship Name:The Queen
Port of Arrival: New York

Why is normal in Italy that the cousin was homonymus, can someone help me about italian origin place of Cantoni family emigrated in Perù and with an Circus (Circus Cantoni or Circus Piazzi called), and also about italian origin place of this second Felice Cantoni emigrated in USA?
All help is appreciated!
Many thanks,

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby mfjp » 17 Jan 2005, 20:28

Do you see any passenger names of interest on this manifest you speak of?

See line 16 for the Felice you mentioned.

http://img129.exs.cx/img129/6517/felcan7uy.jpg

mfjp

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby DeliBoy » 17 Jan 2005, 21:12

Why is normal in Italy that the cousin was homonymus?


Click Home on this page, and then read the paragraph entitled "Italian Naming Traditions and their Ramifications".

Edmondo explains this well.

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby ptimber » 17 Jan 2005, 22:04

The 1880 USA census shows Salvatore Cantoni born 1844, as a banker born in Venezia, Italy. It may be that this is your "Felice" or a relative but [pending further resarch this is the best I can do for you. I will try to locate the circus in Italy or peru. Si quieres puedo entender el castellano si es mas favcil para disutir el sujecto. Peter

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 17 Jan 2005, 22:12

mfjp wrote:Do you see any passenger names of interest on this manifest you speak of?

See line 16 for the Felice you mentioned.

http://img129.exs.cx/img129/6517/felcan7uy.jpg

mfjp

Dear mfjp,
Carlos is an my friend; I prepared for he this txt topic; this Felice Cantoni that I found, and also you, are not town of origin in the ship's manifest... my idea is that, why homonymus, descovering some info about town's of birth, is probable same origin.. why Cantoni is an surname very diffused (also Piazzi) but Cantoni + Felice first name is rare and are possible an connection... thank you, regards, suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby ptimber » 17 Jan 2005, 22:13

Creando que puedes entender el castellano puede ir a www.sunarp/gop.pe/homepage.asp que pertenece al registro Civil de Peru y solicitando informaciones puede, quizas,resultar en algopostiivo. Peter

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby ptimber » 18 Jan 2005, 00:11

encontre el sitio de migraciones peruano a www.digemin.gob.pe y envie un e-mail buscando informaciones de Felice cantoni y su mujer Cesira y dos hijos en 1892 a Callao Peru. No se si puso en contacto con ellos o no pero no tenemos nada que perder verdad? Peter

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby Auburn0508 » 18 Jan 2005, 01:43

Please let me know if you gain any further information of descendents closer to the modern date - say, within the last 20-30 years. I have currently met two differnt Cantoni gentlemen here in Townsville, Australia within the last two weeks... no known links between them, but you never know what you can find out. :)

Will try to research as much as I can from this end...
A balance of caution and risk is necessary for a true life. Too much of one can lead to a long, dull existence - too much of the other can lead to a short pointless existence. Moderation in all things - a full and fully-experienced life. :)

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 18 Jan 2005, 06:42

DeliBoy wrote:
Why is normal in Italy that the cousin was homonymus?


Click Home on this page, and then read the paragraph entitled "Italian Naming Traditions and their Ramifications".

Edmondo explains this well.

Hi DeliBoy: after some day about this search (in private messages Carlos/suanj), no result :cry: , I think, as last hope, an idea: homonymus people.
This "chance" is very good for relatives search and/or for birthplace's search; when an person, are an name not diffused: (exemple Felice Cantoni is rare in Italy) finding an homonymus (same first name and same surname) also if of different age, well in this case are good probability that are an relative, why in Italy in paternal line only, frequently are the members family (normally the cousins or grandfather name equal to grandson name) that are OMONIMI .. I hope that, in my bad English, is just the traslation OMONIMI= HOMONYMUS???
well: I find an Felice Cantoni emigrated in USA; are an good probability that descovering the birthplace of this Felice Cantoni , is same birthplace of Carlos ancestors, why this name is rare, and are some possibility that are related...
suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 18 Jan 2005, 17:40

Hi Carlos:
finding in Perù, are an record interesting : some Piazze persons(maybe Piazzi) in Arequipa,Peru...; are:
-José Rudorico T. PIAZZE (Giovanni Ludovico T. Piazzi?)
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 18 Feb 1898 Miraflores,Arequipa,Peru

and the son:
-Alfredo Valerio PIAZZE(PIAZZI) DIAZ
Gender: M Death/Burial: Arequipa,Peru
the Submitter is:
Juan Houdini Mendoza HUERTA
Urb. Los Gladiolos C- 16 Yanahuara Arequipa, Peru..

Also are:
- FELIPE PIAZZI - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 26 MAY 1898 El Sagrario, Arequipa, Arequipa, Peru


Normally in the circus many laborers are in relationship, and especially in little circus; you say me that the circus was of Cesira Piazzi family, and after was sale to Felice Cantoni, also husband of Cecira(Cesira)... are possible that this José Rudorico T. PIAZZE and all other, are related with Cesira Piazzi?
more: you sure that the "circus" really was an circus or an teatro de títeres?
regards, suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby cantoni » 18 Jan 2005, 20:04

Hi all,

Thanks for all your messages.

I will give you more information about your questions.

Peter I don’t think that we can find some information in the registers in Peru, before to came in France I have gone to this organisation but they didn’t have informations about my family. Felice Cantoni is not registered in the “migrationsâ€Â

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 19 Jan 2005, 12:26

well Carlos, was an great circus... todays I wrote to this italian circus association
C E D A C
Via Garbini, 15
37135 - Verona
for an request, waiting some reply...
regards, suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 20 Jan 2005, 17:08

Hi Carlos, is possible for you to contact Archivo Arzobispal de Lima mailto:lgaguti@mail.cosapidata.com.pe ....?
From marriage's process of Nicolas and/or Emilio are many probability that are wrote the italian birthplace of Felice and Cesira... Normally is so!

In all countries are this marriage's process (processo para casamento); this are all info for marriage.. I think this is an trace... more: the Cedac reply me and between some days (why Archive's director are in Montecarlo for Circus Festival) if they found , they send an email for me... regards, suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby suanj » 22 Jan 2005, 22:33

Hi Carlos: to purpose of homonymus are this record:
1. Felice CANTONI born...? Abt..? married to...?
1.1 son: Allessandro Isach Cantoni Abt 1819 , spouse Anna Consola Sforni Abt 1822
1.1.1 son of Alessandro Isach and Anna Consola:
Cantoni, Felice born Abt 1850 Trieste, Friuli-Venezia Giulia region, Italy ; married to Maria Rosuggi (born in Parma, Emilia Romagna region, Italy abt 1845) the 4 Sep 1875 in Monticelli d'Ongina, Piacenza, Emilia-Romagna.
Sources:
Abbrev: FHL Film # 1659813 - Pubblicazioni 1810-1865 Matrimoni 1806-1810
Title: Registri dello stato civile, 1806-1920
Pubblicazioni 1810-1865 Matrimoni 1806-1810
Author: Monticelli d'Ongina (Piacenza). Ufficio dello stato civile


Well: why is very rare the rilevance of Cantoni surname + Felice first name, is good idea to think that are same town...also an child of your Felix was born in Trieste!Now are some probability that also your Cantoni coming from Parma or Trieste; more: this areas are famous for circus companies....from very ancient time....
is an good step, really, but the problem is to know max aproximative birthyear of your Felix; if Messina or Trieste common reply you, the mistery is finish... hoping success!
take care, suanj

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Re: surnames Cantoni & Piazzi (Circus)

Postby sumner » 24 Jan 2005, 00:00

I don't know if this helps at all. But in suanj's listing of the record from Piacenza, it indicates the family may have been from Emilia-Romagna. Well, I can tell you that Cantoni is a VERY common surname in the villages where I am doing my research (with suanj's tremendous assistance). In fact, I am a Cantoni descendant myself. I haven't come across Felice's name in my records as yet in Boretto or Brescello near Parma in Emilia-Romagna. But I'll keep looking.


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