Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

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Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 19 Sep 2012, 19:13

Hello, my name is Jeremy and for many years I've been talking with my family about learning more about our Italian Heritage. This year I started my research.

My late Grandfather, Anzelmo James Ronco, was born in the United States in New York. His father John Ronco, immigrated from Italy in October 25, 1909 at age 30. He left the port in Napoli abord the Duca Degli Abruzzi.

He was originally Giovanni Ronca. I also know that he was born in Salerno, Italy on May 7, 1880. I've determined this information from his Petition for Naturalization in the USA that is dated October 24, 1924.

Unfortunately, this is where I've run into a stumbling block. I don't have any concrete information regarding his parents. My mother believes his father to be Mateo Giovanni Ronca, but unfortunately is not complete sure. I've also been told, again by my mother, that there were some family discussions when she was younger about the city of San Fele in the Salerno Province. Again, this is something I don't have a way to confirm.

So, I come to this forum in the hopes that someone can help me figure out the names of my Great Grandfather Giovanni Ronca's parents and any other information that might be known about them and where they were from. Maybe even confirm Giovanni's birth city.

I also hope to find out if he had any siblings or was married while in Italy to anyone other than my Great Grandmother who he married in New York in 1913.

I would love to trace the lineage beyond them, but I don't know where to begin.

Any help or information anyone has would be very much appreciated!! Thank you!
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 20 Sep 2012, 18:30

Correction! I've spoken with a few other family members and found that Mateo was a name somehow associated with my great grandfather Giovanni, not his father. I apologize for the confusion. I cannot find any records that suggest this as his immigration papers and naturalization papers mention only mention Giovanni.

His parents are actually believed to be Carmine and "Mille" Ronca.

Aside from this correction, the other information I've provided is correct.

Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me!
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 20 Sep 2012, 18:39

Hey Jeremy
Welcome to the Forum :D !
We will all be happy to see if we can help.
You're right, you need to determine if Salerno comune is where your great grandfather was born (it may have been a comune if Salerno province). Most records will be found at the comune level
A quick check of his Declaration of Intention and his 1917-1918 WWI Draft Registration Card confirms that he was consistant in stating it was 'Salerno'. His birth date does vary though from 5 Mar to 5 May to 7 May.
You're also correct that he did state he was married on his 1909 ship manifest
Valarie

edit: added

for everyone's reference

1909 ship manifest
(confirmed on naturalization documents)

http://imageshack.us/a/img831/7561/1909o.jpg
next page
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/5324/1909bx.jpg

Ship Name: Duca Degli Abruzzi
Arrival Date: 25 Oct 1909
Port of Departure: Napoli
Port of Arrival: New York, New York

line 22
Giovanni Ronca 30, abt 1879
- married
- shoemaker
* - naturalization notation 2-814099-505 3/17/41
(may have reapplied for citizenship - see his Petition below)
- last residence Salerno (written once, may be Salerno comune in Salerno province)
- leaving wife Eufemia Gallo/Gatto(?) in Salerno
- destination NY (probably NY, NY)
- not in US before
- joining cousin Nicola Minetta 116 47th St
- born in Salerno
---

edit: added

Also for reference
from Fold3
(subscription)

1921 Declaration of Intention
http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9903/1921r.jpg

Publication Number: M1972
Publication Title: Petitions for Naturalization of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944
Content Source: NARA
Partner: NARA
National Archives Catalog ID: 575701
National Archives Catalog Title: Petitions for Naturalization, compiled 1824 - 1991
Record Group: 21
State: New York
Court: Southern District
Catalog Keywords: Petitions Naturalization Immigration Citizenship
Fold3 Publication Year: 2008
Language: English
Short Description: NARA M1972. Petitions for Naturalization of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944.
Roll: 0281
Birth Country: Italy
Document Date Year: 1921
Surname: Ronca
Given Name: John

Document Type: Declaration of Intention
Alias Given Name: Giovanni
---

1924 Petition for Naturalization
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/2440/peti ... lizati.jpg

Publication Number: M1972
Publication Title: Petitions for Naturalization of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944
Content Source: NARA
Partner: NARA
National Archives Catalog ID: 575701
National Archives Catalog Title: Petitions for Naturalization, compiled 1824 - 1991
Record Group: 21
State: New York
Court: Southern District
Catalog Keywords: Petitions Naturalization Immigration Citizenship
Fold3 Publication Year: 2008
Language: English
Short Description: NARA M1972. Petitions for Naturalization of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944.
Roll: 0281
Birth Country: Italy
Document Date Year: 1924
Surname: Ronca
Given Name: John

Document Type: Petition for Naturalization
Alias Given Name: Giovanni
---

Certificate of Arrival
http://imageshack.us/a/img407/2447/coa1924.jpg
---

Oath of Allegiance
http://imageshack.us/a/img267/4467/oath ... ce1924.jpg

*Note: it appears that his Petition was denied
He may have reapplied in 1941 according to his 1909 ship manifest
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 20 Sep 2012, 19:37

icebsu wrote:... John Ronco, immigrated from Italy in October 25, 1909 at age 30
... He was originally Giovanni Ronca
... born in Salerno, Italy on May 7, 1880
... Great Grandmother who he married in New York in 1913...


Jeremy,
Their marriage record in New York should list their parents' names
What was your great grandmother's maiden name?
Do you know where in New York they were married?
Thank you
Valarie
---

edit added

This may be it, does this index look correct?
(his WWI Card lists her name as Angela Maria Ronca)

from the Italian Genealogical Group
http://www.italiangen.org/default.htm

Surname Given Name Month of Marriage Day of Marriage Year of Marriage Certificate Number County FHL roll number

Ronco Giovanni Sep 25 1913 23702 (1913) Manhattan 1613802
Zupka Angela Sep 25 1913 23702 (1913) Manhattan 1613802


link for ordering records
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vi ... iage.shtml
---

edit: added

for reference his 1918 WWI Draft Registration Card
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/4409/1918r.jpg

John Ronca
453 W 52 St, New York, NY
38 yrs, born 5 March 1880 in Italy
non-declarant
shoemaker, self-mployed at 364 W 53rd St
Wife Angela Marie Ronca
(not signed)
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 20 Sep 2012, 20:22

It appears that John Ronca/o did apply for naturalization again
Here's an index card from 1944 matching the address on his 1940 census

1944 Naturalization Index Card
http://imageshack.us/a/img820/9208/1944p.jpg

No 5904266
John Ronco
672 Westchester Ave, Bronx NY
63 years (abt 1880-1)
Date of admission: 17 Feb 1944
US District Court New York City
Petition no 397699
Cert of Ident 113138
4280488
---

1940 census
http://imageshack.us/a/img29/644/1940z.jpg
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 20 Sep 2012, 21:25

Another birth date
(he may not have known the date)
1942 WWII Draft Registration Card
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/8579/1942y.jpg

John Ronco
672 Westchester Ave, Bronx
62 yrs old
Born 15 Oct 1878 in Salerno
contact: Mary Ronco, same address
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 21 Sep 2012, 00:14

Angela Maria Zupa (abt 1887)

icebsu wrote:...my mother, that there were some family discussions when she was younger about the city of San Fele ...


Hey Jeremy
San Fele appears to be where your great grandmother, Angela Maria Zupa, is from
On your great grandfather John Ronca/o's 1924 Petition, her brother John may have been one of the witnesses
The other witness is a Salvatore Ronca/Ronga(?)
Valarie

probable 1909 ship manifest
http://imageshack.us/a/img43/5656/1911li.jpg
next page
http://imageshack.us/a/img717/5341/1911b.jpg

Ship Name: Principe di Piemonte
Arrival Date: 6 Nov 1911
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
lines 11-12

Giovanni Zupa 20, abt 1891
- single
- shoemaker
- last residence S Fele, Potenza
- leaving father Antonio Zupa in S Fele
- destination NY NY
- joining sister Maria Bagarozza/i at 353 W 47th St(?)
- born in S Fele, Potenza

sister Ano (Ang/Angela) Maria Zupa 24, abt 1887
- single
- dressmaker
- naturalization notation: 2-500141 1/29/37
- last residence S Fele, Potenza
- leaving father Antonio Zupa in S Fele
- destination NY NY
- joining sister Maria Bagarozza/i at 353 W 47th St(?)
- born in S Fele, Potenza
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 21 Sep 2012, 06:47

Wow! Thank you so much for all you've found, Valerie. I'm astonished by how quickly you found all of that information.

I have to apologize I did not think to share my Great Grandmother's name. I can confirm that Angela Maria Zupa is correct. Based upon her death record from the State of Florida her date of birth is June 21, 1886 and she died in March of 1975.

As for her parents, my mother was able to share with me that Angela Maria Zupa's father was Antonio Zupa, which matches your findings. She also believe's his wife to have been Philomena Trenalone.

I also know that per the US Naturalization Records I've found that Sept. 25, 1913 is for sure the date of their marriage. I've also just noticed that this same record does confirm that Angela Maria Zupa's place of birth was Protenza, Italy.

Amazing!! So the rumors of Giovanni having a wife in Italy are correct!

With regard to Giovanni Ronca's place of birth, I found something that said "Salerno, Campania, Italy" yet again though I have nothing to confirm this is a concrete fact. Maybe this will help find his Parent's names?

Thank you again, for all you've found so far!! Will any of the information I provided here, possibly help you find even more info?
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 21 Sep 2012, 16:07

Hey Jeremy!
I'm so glad we could help!
We can post their US census records if you need them.
For Giovanni Ronca's Italian records, if he was born in the comune of Salerno - you can write for his birth record
(the FamilySearch library hasn't filmed Salerno yet)
First though, I would order his marriage record from New York - all the one's I've ordered have parent's names on them.
Valarie
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 21 Sep 2012, 18:43

Thank you for pointing that out, Valerie! I did not realize that the link was for actually ordering a copy. I mis-read it originally.

I've placed an order today to obtain a copy of the original marriage certificate. As you've mentioned I hope that this lists Giovanni's parent's names and maybe even Angela's parents names, so we can confirm her mother.

Once I have Giovanni's parent's names, I will share them here in the hopes that maybe we can turn up more information.

If I do have the ability to write to the commune of Salerno, will it matter that I cannot speak/write in Italian?
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 21 Sep 2012, 19:20

icebsu wrote:...If I do have the ability to write to the commune of Salerno, will it matter that I cannot speak/write in Italian?


He Jeremy,
Because Giovanni listed several birth dates... it may help Salerno find his birth record if you can give them his parents' names.
This note includes several form letters you can use to convert your request to Italian.
Since you do have your great grandmother's birth location, date and father's name, I've also included the address for San Fele.
(if you want to go ahead and request her record while you're waiting to hear from NYC)
Valarie
---

Research in Salerno and San Fele by writing to the comune:

Italian form letter generator with instructions:
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp

Or other helpful form letters:
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... tters.html

Note from member pink67 (Laura):
If the document is for citizenship purpose you have to ask for the "Estratto dell'atto di nascita in modello plurilingue"

Address:

Ufficio di Stato Civile
Comune di Salerno
Via Roma
84121 Salerno (SA)
ITALY

http://www.tuttitalia.it/campania/29-salerno/

Address:

Ufficio di Stato Civile
Comune di San Fele
Via Mazzini 7
85020 San Fele (PZ)
ITALY

http://www.tuttitalia.it/basilicata/57-san-fele/

---

Website for finding comune addresses:
http://www.nonsolocap.it/
---

note: you may want to include a self-addressed envelope and copy of your photo ID for the convenience of the comune
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 24 Sep 2012, 18:21

For Giovanni Ronca, I believe that May 7, 1880 is the correct birthdate, based on family discussions and his Petition for Naturalization. I'm anxiously awaiting the marriage record from New York so I can learn more.

Also, regarding making a request to Italy for my Great Grandmother's, Angela Maria's, birth records. My wife has a few friends who speak/write Italian so I'm hoping to maybe enlist their help in addition to using the form letter information you provided. I understand that the process is often slow when dealing with Italian records. Is every city different in how they respond?

Also, I found this website about San Fele, Italy:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~itacsnf/
Unfortunately, it only lists a few people with the surname of Zupa. So, I guess not much research has been completed in this family line.

Does anyone know what the possible cost for the request of my Great Grandmother's birth records might be?

Now for something new I found out about my Great Grandfather, Giovanni.......well it's more of a family rumor I suppose than anything else. There is no proof to either confirm or deny the rumor, so I'll bring it up here and ask if there is possibly a way to research it!

So, in talking with my family again, I found through conversation with my Uncle that supposedly my Great Grandfather's wife in Italy, Eufemia Gallo, was caught having an adulterous affair and was murdered along with her lover. As stated previously, no one has any sort of proof because if it were true it occured in Italy prior to 1909. Is it possible to research something like this to find out if it is or is not true? Or will it forever remain a family rumor?

*Edit:
I almost forgot! Thank you again for all of your help!! You are truely amazing people!
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 24 Sep 2012, 18:48

Hey Jeremy!
Hope this helps
Valarie

icebsu wrote:... Is every city different in how they respond?

Yes, similar to our local govts.

icebsu wrote:Does anyone know what the possible cost for the request of my Great Grandmother's birth records might be?

If there is a charge (usually for copying and postage), they'll let you know.

icebsu wrote:Is it possible to research something like this to find out if it is or is not true?

That's a tough one. You could request their marriage record and her birth record.
Her birth record should have a notation for her death date.
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby icebsu » 01 Oct 2012, 22:56

Just as an update, I'm still waiting to receive my Great Grandfather's Marriage Record from New York.

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to receive records? It has been just over a week since I placed the order for the records.

Valerie, thanks for the feedback on my questions. In order to obtain the marriage records for the first wife that you mentioned, I would still need to wait to try and figure this information out because we still haven't 100% confirmed where he was from. Is that correct?

Thanks again for all your help, this is truely an amazing website!
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Re: Researching the Ronca Family (Help Please!)

Postby vj » 01 Oct 2012, 23:42

Hey Jeremy!
It took abt 3-4 weeks for me to get records from NYC
They are great folks to deal with
Time usually depends upon their work load
I would wait until you can confirm his parent's names before writing to Salerno
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