Hello, my name is Jeremy and for many years I've been talking with my family about learning more about our Italian Heritage. This year I started my research.
My late Grandfather, Anzelmo James Ronco, was born in the United States in New York. His father John Ronco, immigrated from Italy in October 25, 1909 at age 30. He left the port in Napoli abord the Duca Degli Abruzzi.
He was originally Giovanni Ronca. I also know that he was born in Salerno, Italy on May 7, 1880. I've determined this information from his Petition for Naturalization in the USA that is dated October 24, 1924.
Unfortunately, this is where I've run into a stumbling block. I don't have any concrete information regarding his parents. My mother believes his father to be Mateo Giovanni Ronca, but unfortunately is not complete sure. I've also been told, again by my mother, that there were some family discussions when she was younger about the city of San Fele in the Salerno Province. Again, this is something I don't have a way to confirm.
So, I come to this forum in the hopes that someone can help me figure out the names of my Great Grandfather Giovanni Ronca's parents and any other information that might be known about them and where they were from. Maybe even confirm Giovanni's birth city.
I also hope to find out if he had any siblings or was married while in Italy to anyone other than my Great Grandmother who he married in New York in 1913.
I would love to trace the lineage beyond them, but I don't know where to begin.
Any help or information anyone has would be very much appreciated!! Thank you!
Correction! I've spoken with a few other family members and found that Mateo was a name somehow associated with my great grandfather Giovanni, not his father. I apologize for the confusion. I cannot find any records that suggest this as his immigration papers and naturalization papers mention only mention Giovanni.
His parents are actually believed to be Carmine and "Mille" Ronca.
Aside from this correction, the other information I've provided is correct.
Hey Jeremy Welcome to the Forum ! We will all be happy to see if we can help. You're right, you need to determine if Salerno comune is where your great grandfather was born (it may have been a comune if Salerno province). Most records will be found at the comune level A quick check of his Declaration of Intention and his 1917-1918 WWI Draft Registration Card confirms that he was consistant in stating it was 'Salerno'. His birth date does vary though from 5 Mar to 5 May to 7 May. You're also correct that he did state he was married on his 1909 ship manifest Valarie
for everyone's reference
1909 ship manifest (confirmed on naturalization documents)
Ship Name: Duca Degli Abruzzi Arrival Date: 25 Oct 1909 Port of Departure: Napoli Port of Arrival: New York, New York
line 22 Giovanni Ronca 30, abt 1879 - married - shoemaker * - naturalization notation 2-814099-505 3/17/41 (may have reapplied for citizenship - see his Petition below) - last residence Salerno (written once, may be Salerno comune in Salerno province) - leaving wife Eufemia Gallo/Gatto(?) in Salerno - destination NY (probably NY, NY) - not in US before - joining cousin Nicola Minetta 116 47th St - born in Salerno ---
Publication Number: M1972 Publication Title: Petitions for Naturalization of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944 Content Source: NARA Partner: NARA National Archives Catalog ID: 575701 National Archives Catalog Title: Petitions for Naturalization, compiled 1824 - 1991 Record Group: 21 State: New York Court: Southern District Catalog Keywords: Petitions Naturalization Immigration Citizenship Fold3 Publication Year: 2008 Language: English Short Description: NARA M1972. Petitions for Naturalization of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944. Roll: 0281 Birth Country: Italy Document Date Year: 1921 Surname: Ronca Given Name: John Document Type: Declaration of Intention Alias Given Name: Giovanni ---
Publication Number: M1972 Publication Title: Petitions for Naturalization of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944 Content Source: NARA Partner: NARA National Archives Catalog ID: 575701 National Archives Catalog Title: Petitions for Naturalization, compiled 1824 - 1991 Record Group: 21 State: New York Court: Southern District Catalog Keywords: Petitions Naturalization Immigration Citizenship Fold3 Publication Year: 2008 Language: English Short Description: NARA M1972. Petitions for Naturalization of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, 1897-1944. Roll: 0281 Birth Country: Italy Document Date Year: 1924 Surname: Ronca Given Name: John Document Type: Petition for Naturalization Alias Given Name: Giovanni ---
icebsu wrote:... John Ronco, immigrated from Italy in October 25, 1909 at age 30 ... He was originally Giovanni Ronca ... born in Salerno, Italy on May 7, 1880 ... Great Grandmother who he married in New York in 1913...
Jeremy, Their marriage record in New York should list their parents' names What was your great grandmother's maiden name? Do you know where in New York they were married? Thank you Valarie ---
This may be it, does this index look correct? (his WWI Card lists her name as Angela Maria Ronca)
icebsu wrote:...my mother, that there were some family discussions when she was younger about the city of San Fele ...
Hey Jeremy San Fele appears to be where your great grandmother, Angela Maria Zupa, is from On your great grandfather John Ronca/o's 1924 Petition, her brother John may have been one of the witnesses The other witness is a Salvatore Ronca/Ronga(?) Valarie
Ship Name: Principe di Piemonte Arrival Date: 6 Nov 1911 Port of Departure: Naples, Italy Port of Arrival: New York, New York lines 11-12
Giovanni Zupa 20, abt 1891 - single - shoemaker - last residence S Fele, Potenza - leaving father Antonio Zupa in S Fele - destination NY NY - joining sister Maria Bagarozza/i at 353 W 47th St(?) - born in S Fele, Potenza
sister Ano (Ang/Angela) Maria Zupa 24, abt 1887 - single - dressmaker - naturalization notation: 2-500141 1/29/37 - last residence S Fele, Potenza - leaving father Antonio Zupa in S Fele - destination NY NY - joining sister Maria Bagarozza/i at 353 W 47th St(?) - born in S Fele, Potenza
Wow! Thank you so much for all you've found, Valerie. I'm astonished by how quickly you found all of that information.
I have to apologize I did not think to share my Great Grandmother's name. I can confirm that Angela Maria Zupa is correct. Based upon her death record from the State of Florida her date of birth is June 21, 1886 and she died in March of 1975.
As for her parents, my mother was able to share with me that Angela Maria Zupa's father was Antonio Zupa, which matches your findings. She also believe's his wife to have been Philomena Trenalone.
I also know that per the US Naturalization Records I've found that Sept. 25, 1913 is for sure the date of their marriage. I've also just noticed that this same record does confirm that Angela Maria Zupa's place of birth was Protenza, Italy.
Amazing!! So the rumors of Giovanni having a wife in Italy are correct!
With regard to Giovanni Ronca's place of birth, I found something that said "Salerno, Campania, Italy" yet again though I have nothing to confirm this is a concrete fact. Maybe this will help find his Parent's names?
Thank you again, for all you've found so far!! Will any of the information I provided here, possibly help you find even more info?
Hey Jeremy! I'm so glad we could help! We can post their US census records if you need them. For Giovanni Ronca's Italian records, if he was born in the comune of Salerno - you can write for his birth record (the FamilySearch library hasn't filmed Salerno yet) First though, I would order his marriage record from New York - all the one's I've ordered have parent's names on them. Valarie
Thank you for pointing that out, Valerie! I did not realize that the link was for actually ordering a copy. I mis-read it originally.
I've placed an order today to obtain a copy of the original marriage certificate. As you've mentioned I hope that this lists Giovanni's parent's names and maybe even Angela's parents names, so we can confirm her mother.
Once I have Giovanni's parent's names, I will share them here in the hopes that maybe we can turn up more information.
If I do have the ability to write to the commune of Salerno, will it matter that I cannot speak/write in Italian?
icebsu wrote:...If I do have the ability to write to the commune of Salerno, will it matter that I cannot speak/write in Italian?
He Jeremy, Because Giovanni listed several birth dates... it may help Salerno find his birth record if you can give them his parents' names. This note includes several form letters you can use to convert your request to Italian. Since you do have your great grandmother's birth location, date and father's name, I've also included the address for San Fele. (if you want to go ahead and request her record while you're waiting to hear from NYC) Valarie ---
Research in Salerno and San Fele by writing to the comune:
For Giovanni Ronca, I believe that May 7, 1880 is the correct birthdate, based on family discussions and his Petition for Naturalization. I'm anxiously awaiting the marriage record from New York so I can learn more.
Also, regarding making a request to Italy for my Great Grandmother's, Angela Maria's, birth records. My wife has a few friends who speak/write Italian so I'm hoping to maybe enlist their help in addition to using the form letter information you provided. I understand that the process is often slow when dealing with Italian records. Is every city different in how they respond?
Also, I found this website about San Fele, Italy: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~itacsnf/ Unfortunately, it only lists a few people with the surname of Zupa. So, I guess not much research has been completed in this family line.
Does anyone know what the possible cost for the request of my Great Grandmother's birth records might be?
Now for something new I found out about my Great Grandfather, Giovanni.......well it's more of a family rumor I suppose than anything else. There is no proof to either confirm or deny the rumor, so I'll bring it up here and ask if there is possibly a way to research it!
So, in talking with my family again, I found through conversation with my Uncle that supposedly my Great Grandfather's wife in Italy, Eufemia Gallo, was caught having an adulterous affair and was murdered along with her lover. As stated previously, no one has any sort of proof because if it were true it occured in Italy prior to 1909. Is it possible to research something like this to find out if it is or is not true? Or will it forever remain a family rumor?
*Edit: I almost forgot! Thank you again for all of your help!! You are truely amazing people!
Just as an update, I'm still waiting to receive my Great Grandfather's Marriage Record from New York.
Does anyone know how long it usually takes to receive records? It has been just over a week since I placed the order for the records.
Valerie, thanks for the feedback on my questions. In order to obtain the marriage records for the first wife that you mentioned, I would still need to wait to try and figure this information out because we still haven't 100% confirmed where he was from. Is that correct?
Thanks again for all your help, this is truely an amazing website!
Hey Jeremy! It took abt 3-4 weeks for me to get records from NYC They are great folks to deal with Time usually depends upon their work load I would wait until you can confirm his parent's names before writing to Salerno Valarie