What should be my next steps?

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frankdamore
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby frankdamore » 31 Jul 2013, 01:55

Marty, you really have uncovered so much information that I potentially never could have found before. It's such a great feeling seeing this wonderful progress while I was sitting here scratching my head praying for a miracle for info to jump out and hit me. It is much appreciate and I thank you for your time!

Biff, the manifest would coincide with the 1910 census Eurdita posted. I noticed the same name for the destination/notes on the manifest compared to a house member on the 1910 census.
It's frustrating because I have the 1915 census showing Antonio and family, but 1910 and 1920 are the difficult ones. I have 1920 posted as reference. The thing is all three have the same year for immigration. Is it safe to assume this is my great gpa for all three records?
I have his WWI doc and just wish the birthplace showed more than "Italy" like many of my other relatives.

This site has always treated me so well and I'm grateful for everyone's assistance. I hope more info continues to flow!

http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/703/5rnc.png
http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/28/eq26.jpg

frankdamore
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby frankdamore » 01 Aug 2013, 03:09

I came across this record https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XKQQ-969

It doesn't show my great gpa 's name (Antonio), however I came across the name DiBella. From the Ship Manifest that was posted on page one for Antonio, "DiBella" was listed all the way towards the right of his line item. Does anyone else know what is said on that record?

Antonio's death certif stated father: Frank / so this record I posted would be resembled by Francesco. The mother stated unknown, but my Aunt Sylvia (Antonio's youngest daughter) always said she believed her grandmother's name was Maria (which would be resembled by Melita).

Any thoughts? I'm hoping this could be a link!

Thanks

frankdamore
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby frankdamore » 29 Jun 2016, 03:32

Long time, no chat everyone. Hope you all have been doing great.

As I am anxiously awaiting my DNA results, I am working on filling in some gaps.

Marty, if you are still around...can you give me some search tips? Looking back at the marriage record that you had found, was there something specific that you typed in to locate that record? I am still amazed that you were able to locate that. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n212198446)

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adelfio
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby adelfio » 29 Jun 2016, 06:19

You are welcome

In searching Italian civil records you have birth(nati) death(morte) marriage (matrimoni) by year most go from 1866-1910 some towns have other years. Indexes are found at the beginning or end of the year you are searching by index number and surname.There are also multi year indexes which combine 5 or 10 years of indexes
Babies are born then presented to the civil official of the town usually within a few days of birth for entry in the birth registry. If there is a problem and they cant register the birth act until much later they are entered in the Parte 2 for that year usually in the rear of the records and that record is usually handwritten. Sometimes there are sidenotes with marriage or death information or if the act has a mistake in it a correction to those mistakes

Marriage records include birth town, ages, occupations, parents names, if they are deceased

Death records have age parents if they were married and to whom and usually town of birth

Civil records are signed by the civil official and 2 witnesses not usually family members
The indexes for the churches in Italy of baptism and marriage and death are arranged by first name first (later years last name first) by year and date of the act and page and record number. Just find your person in the index and go back to the records to find the act you

RECORD LINKS INDEXES ARE BEHIND THE YEAR YOU ARE SEARCHING
https://familysearch.org/search/image/i ... %3D1946858
EARLIER RECORDS 1820-1865
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ero+Patti/

Marriage of Giuseppe DeLuca and Carmela Adamo
1846 Oct 12th in the town of San Piero Patti marriage of Giuseppe DeLuca age 27 shoemaker born in San Piero Patti and resides in Montagnareale son of Pietro DeLuca and deceased Filomena La Greca married Carmela Adamo age 24 spinner born and living in San Piero Patti daughter of Francesco Adamo and Rosaria Butta

PG LINK
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby VotM » 29 Jun 2016, 09:50

frankdamore wrote:I wish there was a way to truly know if that 1910 census is my g-gpa. I would assume it is since it's Buffalo, the age matches, and the year of immigration is similar to what I have (1 year difference). My mother believes Joseph had a brother, but isn't certain of his name.

Be prepared for the possibility that the immigration year on the census is not entirely accurate. In the 1910 census, my Di Fina ancestors are listed as coming over in 1906 and 1909; in the 1920 census, they're all listed as coming over in 1903. As it turns out, they came over in 1905.

Answers were sometimes provided by a younger member of the house or a neighbor, which can make for difficult twists in lining up names, ages, immigration years, etc. Combine that with census takers making handwritten notes based on what they thought they heard and you get plenty of margin for error.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby kencwalker » 29 Jun 2016, 17:05

frankdamore wrote:I wish there was a way to truly know if that 1910 census is my g-gpa. I would assume it is since it's Buffalo, the age matches, and the year of immigration is similar to what I have (1 year difference).

VotM wrote:Be prepared for the possibility that the immigration year on the census is not entirely accurate.

AMEN to "not entirely accurate". You're being kind. :) I have a g-g.father that (according to census records) arrived between 1893-1895, and was born between 1865-1871. In fact, he arrived in 1892 and was born in 1865. Even his naturalization papers were a year off. He came from Sweden, so I had Swedish emigration records to confirm.

adelfio wrote:In searching Italian civil records you have birth(nati) death(morte) marriage (matrimoni) by year most go from 1866-1910 some towns have other years. Indexes are found at the beginning or end of the year you are searching by index number and surname.There are also multi year indexes which combine 5 or 10 years of indexes

When Marty says "indexes", he means hand-written indexes created at the end of each year (or 5/10 year period). In general, the FamilySearch records are NOT indexed or computer searchable. You go through them "the old fashioned way" a page at a time (using a computer to view instead of microfilm/fiche readers).

There are also records at Portale Antenati (Ancestors Portal).
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/en/home

Currently (June 2016) they have over 50 million images from 46 state archives.
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby VotM » 29 Jun 2016, 17:19

kencwalker wrote:When Marty says "indexes", he means hand-written indexes created at the end of each year (or 5/10 year period). In general, the FamilySearch records are NOT indexed or computer searchable. You go through them "the old fashioned way" a page at a time (using a computer to view instead of microfilm/fiche readers).

Things aren't quite so painful these days. Some time back LDS modified the FamilySearch online viewer to present thumbnails of multiple images. Once you've seen an index page, it's fairly easy to identify them by their thumbnails. You can scroll through fairly quickly to find each index, then click on a thumbnail (or the page/thumbnail control on the left) to toggle into single page viewing mode.

All the same, it's generally a good idea to keep a "road map", or reference sheet, of where you found each year's index for future reference.

And, of course, sometimes the index is missing from a year... in which case you may indeed have to go through the images "the old fashioned way".
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

kencwalker
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby kencwalker » 29 Jun 2016, 19:14

VotM wrote:Things aren't quite so painful these days. Some time back LDS modified the FamilySearch online viewer to present thumbnails of multiple images. Once you've seen an index page, it's fairly easy to identify them by their thumbnails. You can scroll through fairly quickly to find each index, then click on a thumbnail (or the page/thumbnail control on the left) to toggle into single page viewing mode.

VotM, true, it's not as bad as literally using a microfilm reader (or computer equivalent). I was being "a little dramatic" for those expecting indexed searches (and not used to visually searching filmed records).

Agreed, the thumbnail viewer at FamilySearch is an improvement, and the indexes are usually easy to identify. However, finding the specific record/image of interest can be a pain. For example, it should be easy to find birth record #15. There are 3 entries per image, so skip forward 5 images, right? WRONG (at least not in my ancestors towns). Many times the same "paper pages" are repeated on consecutive images, so it becomes a guessing game. Go forward 10 images, see what I get, then fine tune from there.

I've also found indexes buried in the middle of year... not sure if that's a problem with the order of the original film, or the process used to convert the film to digital images.

Good advice to record to the image# for each year's index. It's very handy when additional info is needed (as frequently happens). :)
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

VotM
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby VotM » 29 Jun 2016, 19:30

kencwalker wrote:I've also found indexes buried in the middle of year... not sure if that's a problem with the order of the original film, or the process used to convert the film to digital images.

Another cautionary note. In some cases the entries for a given year are split. You'll have a large group of entries, then an index, then anywhere from a few to a few hundred more entries, then another index to cover the new entries. For example, births in Cefalu for 1884 are split into three groups, with entries continuously numbered between the groups but with each group having its own index. Not sure why the records were kept this way, but in these cases it's an issue that goes all the way back to the original record book.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

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peonygirl
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby peonygirl » 29 Jun 2016, 21:54

Hi everyone. Going through the images is tedious, even with indexes. I've been looking through the Pescara archives and the Agrigento archives. It may seem obvious to some, but I keep a journal book next to my laptop. Each page has a heading of the year, town, type of act. As I see family names, I record their Immagine #, and also the key elements of the Act in the journal. With all of your help, I think I am now able to translate the key items! If no records are found, I also record that. It is so easy to lose track of where you've been and what you actually have seen. And this makes it easy to refer back to those records.
True, I also have an Excel worksheet with information, but I am liking this journal better. My 2 cents -- Peonygirl :D

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adelfio
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby adelfio » 30 Jun 2016, 00:36

You guys and girls are great! Spreading the researching knowledge is a beautiful thing to help another person find his heritage

Gotta love IG website

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby kencwalker » 30 Jun 2016, 20:21

peonygirl wrote:It may seem obvious to some, but I keep a journal book next to my laptop. Each page has a heading of the year, town, type of act. As I see family names, I record their Image #, and also the key elements...
If no records are found, I also record that. It is so easy to lose track of where you've been and what you have seen. And this makes it easy to refer back to those records.
True, I also have an Excel worksheet with information, but I am liking this journal better.

All good advice Peonygirl. A journal is NOT obvious until you've re-researched the same record 3 or 4 times. :) (as I've learned from the school of hard knocks) And recording where you've searched without success is also useful.

I now do something similar, although my written journal only has basic info. I prefer to record the details in Excel worksheets (one per comune). I find it easier to search, sort and compare (but I'm a geek). I always have my journal at my side when researching . You just never know when you will discover a new detail about an old ancestor (like unraveling the Spirito Cantoia/Castaldi and Lorenzo Cantoia/Cattaneo riddles).

-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

kencwalker
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby kencwalker » 30 Jun 2016, 20:34

adelfio wrote:Spreading the researching knowledge is a beautiful thing to help another person find his heritage. Gotta love IG website

Thanks. Yes, I love the IG Forum members! I've learned a lot from this group, and trying to give back. We all have the same goal - finding our ancestors. Italian records present challenges for those in the USA: language, handwriting, distance, records access and indexing (not necessarily in that order). Then there are all the mangled Italian names in US records. LOL.

The IG site has some handy blogs about Italian genealogy (plus Ann's blogs). One that isn't covered (specifically) is tracking immigrant ancestors. I think Ann has a blog on immigration. Most in the US run into problems going from Ellis Island or a US census back to Italy (several requests on this topic each week). Several blogs could be written to outline the "research recipe" for this process along with tips when you get stuck. Just my 0.02....
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

frankdamore
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby frankdamore » 01 Jul 2016, 03:09

I really appreciate the help. I'm 33 now and my search began during college in 2002. I've learned so much during this time, and much is thanks to your guidance. With a little one (my first) on the way, I feel like giving him the gift of his ancestry is priceless. I hope he is as interested in his family history as I am.

I finally had a breakthrough on my D'Amore side today. The church where my great grandparents married came through for me with the marriage document (attached). It's taken 14-years to learn that last name, but I think I have it. Would you agree that it is Passalaqua?

Image

With finding this, do you recommend that if I want to go back another generation, seek the marriage of Maria P and Francesco D?

frankdamore
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Re: What should be my next steps?

Postby frankdamore » 01 Jul 2016, 03:38

adelfio wrote:You are welcome


RECORD LINKS INDEXES ARE BEHIND THE YEAR YOU ARE SEARCHING

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ero+Patti/

Marriage of Giuseppe DeLuca and Carmela Adamo
1846 Oct 12th in the town of San Piero Patti marriage of Giuseppe DeLuca age 27 shoemaker born in San Piero Patti and resides in Montagnareale son of Pietro DeLuca and deceased Filomena La Greca married Carmela Adamo age 24 spinner born and living in San Piero Patti daughter of Francesco Adamo and Rosaria Butta

PG LINK
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Marty


If only I could read Italian for the site that you had provided! I'll see if googletranslate will work.

Thank you for the link also (DeLuca/Adamo). Do you work as a researcher? Geesh, I should just send you a check!


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