Pinto

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cdar1231
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Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Aug 2013, 17:58

Dear Friends,

I would like to ask for help on translating a marriage document. Unfortunately, i am unable to post it directly because "the board attachment quota has been reached." However, i'm happy to e-mail it directly to anyone interested. I am seeking a general translation not a word for word. I think i understand what it says but just want to be sure. I'm seeking emphasis on names, places and dates and anything else of interest that i may not have even realized was there.

Thank you in advance for any help or interest.

chris

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Tessa78
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Re: Pinto

Postby Tessa78 » 20 Aug 2013, 19:07

cdar1231 wrote:Dear Friends,

I would like to ask for help on translating a marriage document. Unfortunately, i am unable to post it directly because "the board attachment quota has been reached." However, i'm happy to e-mail it directly to anyone interested. I am seeking a general translation not a word for word. I think i understand what it says but just want to be sure. I'm seeking emphasis on names, places and dates and anything else of interest that i may not have even realized was there.

Thank you in advance for any help or interest.

chris


Hi Chris!

Many have had success in posting to an image-sharing site such as www.postimage.org
No need to register... just upload your image, choose the family content option, then copy and paste the URL for "Thumbnails for Forum1" to this post.
It will allow us to enlarge the record for the translation :-)

T.

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Aug 2013, 17:15

Hi Tessa,

I am not able to post the document myself but i asked someone else to do it for me. I am also not able to verify if it is there or even see it because access is blocked by my job and i do not have a computer at home. So, i hope it is there in a useful form.

Thanks in advance.

chris

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Aug 2013, 17:24

I tried again and am now ablt to upload the file here.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Aug 2013, 17:25

Page 2.

Thank you all in advance!!!

c
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Tessa78
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Re: Pinto

Postby Tessa78 » 21 Aug 2013, 21:59

I can not read this copy when I enlarge it :(
Maybe someone else can see it clearly.

Could you try posting with www.postimage.org?

This is as far as I could read on page 1...

This is a Solemn Promise to marry
Record #37
Date looks like 1864(?) , day 17 of November
Before the official appears Signor Girolamo Angelo Pinto, single, age 19, born in Castelnuovo(?), occupation – landowner, residing in Castelnuovo

T.

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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 21 Aug 2013, 22:25

Right column of page 1

Marriage took place on the 18th in the parish of Santa Maria della Murgia (in Castelnuovo della Daunia (Foggia)

Page 2 is a list of 4 witnesses; will see if I can read them in my picassa program

Bride's name (first name is possibly Elisabetta then Maria then possibly Mariangela-but I can't make out her surname. Her father's name Giovanni.

Erudita

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Aug 2013, 22:41

Tessa,

I asked my cousin to post it postimage.org but since it's a blocked site from my job, i can't verify if it's there.

Erudita, thank you! I'll wait to see if you can see more. I think the groom is Girolamo Antionio Pinto and the bride is Maria Arcangela Petracca....

Thanks again to you both!

chris

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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 21 Aug 2013, 22:49

Forget about the first name Elisabetta. Now that I look at the document again, before the first name Maria, I think are the words "E la nubile" (and the never before married). It would be good though if you could get a better image uploaded to the forum, so we can be sure about the info we are giving you.

I am 100% certain though about the parish name and the date of the church marriage.

I can see that the bride was 18 years old. A possible name for her mother-Raffaela Rubino.

The fathers and grandfathers of both spouses were deceased* but their mothers were alive and present to give their consent.

The handwritten section at the bottom of page 1-documents submitted by the groom and bride for their marriage-
1. birth act of the groom
2. death act of the father of the groom
3. death act of the grandfather of the groom
4. birth act of the bride
5. death act of the father of of the bride
6. death act of her grandfather
Also submitted was the act of notification which had resulted in there being no opposition to their marriage.

Erudita

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Aug 2013, 22:57

Erudita,

How can i get you a better image? I tried posting to postimage.org as suggested but i don't know if it's there.

c

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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 21 Aug 2013, 23:03

I just edited my post above with more info I could read from page 1. I am on my way out now and will try to do more later.

Erudita

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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 22 Aug 2013, 02:26

Here's some good news-the records for the town are online at familysearch.org, but only starting in 1866. I found a birth record for a son born to Signor Girolamo Pinto, age 21, and wife, Arcangela Petracca. I can now confirm that his father was deceased Domenicantonio Pinto. Her father was definitely deceased Giovanni Petracca. The infant was born on June 21st in the house on via Montagna and given the name Giovanni Antonio Pinto. Record #53 is dated on June 24, 1866. Here's a link to the record.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :221785143

Erudita

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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 22 Aug 2013, 14:09

Page two of marriage record-witnesses

#1-Don (title) can't read the first part of his first name but second part is Antonio, he was age 56, property own
#2-Don (title) can't read his first name; surname was "di Sabato"; age 33, property owner
#3-Antonio Renzulli, age 26, property owner
#4-Giovanni Manzi, age 38, can't read his occupation

No relationship of any of the above witnesses to Pinto or Petracca.

I also went through death records online starting in 1870-1890-was hoping to at least find the Rubino death record, but came up empty handed. I still need to look at the ones from 1866. Was also hoping to somehow get a clue to Girolamo Pinto's mother's name, but without knowing her first and maiden names, and since his father died earlier than 1864, there is really nothing I can do. You would have to chance upon the record going record by record. For online records at familysearch.org

Italy, Foggia, Lucera, Ci...on (Tribunale), 1866-1910
Foggia
Castelnuovo della Daunia

Type and Year

Allegati (vari) 1866-1875
Allegati (vari) 1875-1883
Allegati (vari) 1884-1895
Allegati (vari) 1895-1907
Allegati (vari) 1908-1910
Nati, matrimoni, pubblicazioni, morti 1866-1870
Nati, matrimoni, pubblicazioni, morti 1870-1890

Erudita

I just found an 1866 death record for a Maria Saveria Pinto, the widow of Domenicantonio Pinto, so I believe this is the death record for Girolamo's mother. Her father was a (Don)-title- Girolamo Pinto and her mother was a (Donna-title) Felicita (not sure of surname-possibly Rosa) both deceased property owners at the time of her death. The record is dated Nov 6, 1866 at 4 P.M. She died at noon in the house on via Montagna. She was age 53.
She left behind a son of adult age.

Her parents lived in Carlantino, when they were alive

Here's a link to the record

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :221785143

cdar1231
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Re: Pinto

Postby cdar1231 » 22 Aug 2013, 14:44

Dear Erudita,

You have found a lot more than i hoped for. It's amazing that of all the possible children to Girolamo and Maria Archangela you found the son who is my 2nd great grandfather.

Based on other research and information, i believe that Girolamo Antonio Pinto's parents are Domenicantonio and Maria Sevaria. However, another record suggests the mother was Maria Sevaria Rioli and that is something i'm trying to confirm. Domenicantonio Pinto's parents were Francisco Pinto and Maria Marilio.

On the other hand, Maria Archangela Petracca was the daughter of Giovanni Petracca and Raffaela Rubino. All this seems to agree with what you are finding. Also, i have a copy of Maria Archangela's death cirtificate as she died here in the US and that has Giovanni and Raffaela listed as well.

By the way, the son, Giovanni Antonio Pinto also came to the US and i have a picture of his grave; he was buried with his mother. He married Maria Giuseppa Clelia La Medica.

As always, i am VERY grateful for all the information you have found!! :-)

Kind wishes,

chris

erudita74
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Re: Pinto

Postby erudita74 » 22 Aug 2013, 14:54

cdar1231 wrote:Dear Erudita,

You have found a lot more than i hoped for. It's amazing that of all the possible children to Girolamo and Maria Archangela you found the son who is my 2nd great grandfather.

Based on other research and information, i believe that Girolamo Antonio Pinto's parents are Domenicantonio and Maria Sevaria. However, another record suggests the mother was Maria Sevaria Rioli and that is something i'm trying to confirm. Domenicantonio Pinto's parents were Francisco Pinto and Maria Marilio.

On the other hand, Maria Archangela Petracca was the daughter of Giovanni Petracca and Raffaela Rubino. All this seems to agree with what you are finding. Also, i have a copy of Maria Archangela's death cirtificate as she died here in the US and that has Giovanni and Raffaela listed as well.

By the way, the son, Giovanni Antonio Pinto also came to the US and i have a picture of his grave; he was buried with his mother. He married Maria Giuseppa Clelia La Medica.

As always, i am VERY grateful for all the information you have found!! :-)

Kind wishes,

chris


Chris
I just chanced upon the birth record from 1866, which you say is your 2nd great grandfather. I didn't look for any other children's records. The records are online, so you can search for them. There are indices at the end of each year.

Maria's Saveria's surname in her death record is not Rioli. It could be a misspelling in this record though. Without earlier online records for this town or for Carlantino, I have no way of knowing for sure.

Anyway, even though the marriage record was a disaster, there was another way to track down the info.

Happy to have helped.
Erudita


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