Church Records translation (3)

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Church Records translation (3)

Postby rp76226 » 02 Sep 2013, 23:04

Please translate the following 3 marriage records: (Note Postimage isn't working today, so I'm giving direct links to the Mormon sites)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n578256703 (Image 266, record 1161, Zabbia Castellano Marriage)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n578256703 (Image 277, record 1254, Sciortino - Polazzo Marriage)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1689210910 (Image 119, Record 533, last one on bottom left, Zabbia - Niglia Marriage)

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby erudita74 » 02 Sep 2013, 23:22

Ron
I won't be able to tackle these until later probably.

I just wanted to tell you though that it is better that we can view the entire page that a church record is on, as the date of an individual record is sometimes dependent upon the dates which appear on the records which precede it. I believe I explained this to you previously. That's why, in the last record you had posted, Tessa was only able to give you the dates of the marriage banns and not the date of the marriage itself.

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby erudita74 » 03 Sep 2013, 01:32

Record #1161 dated March 4, 1810
Banns of marriage were on Feb 18th, 24th, and 25th and resulted in there being no impediments to the marriage.
The groom, Michelangelo Zabbia, was the legitimate and natural son of spouses, Filippo Zabbia and Ca? Torre (I don't know if the Ca is an abbreviation for Caterina).
The bride, Gioachima Castellana was the legitimate and natural daughter of deceased Lorenzo Castellana and Paolina (surname looks like Genuese, but this doesn't exist in the town. The closest surname I can find for the town is Gennusa.
Witnesses were Don Liborio Caruso and Giuseppe Latino.
The couple received blessings on this same day, which would be March 4th.

Record #1254 dated Nov 25, 1810
Banns were on Oct 28th and (Nov 2nd and 4th???) and resulted in no impediments to the marriage
Groom: Marco Sciortino, legitimate and natural son of Pasquale Scioritino and Anna Lanza
Bride: Domenica Palazzo, legitimate and natural daughter of Rosario Palazzo and Vincenza di Miceli
Witnesses were D. Bernardo Cammarata and Paolo Piazza

Record #533 dated May 27, 1747
Banns were on May 11, 14, and 21 and resulted in no impediments to the marriage
The groom, Baldassare Zabbia, was the unmarried legitimate and natural son of deceased Giovanni and living Paola Zabbia. The bride, Domenica Nigliazzo, was the never before married legitimate and natural daughter of deceased Giachino and living Maddalena Nigliazzo.*
*The surname is Nigliazzo and not Niglia
Witnesses were Maestro Francesco ? and Maestro Francesco Canzaneri

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby rp76226 » 03 Sep 2013, 02:42

On the first marriage, could the parents of the groom be Francesco Zabbia and Apollonia Terrusa? Someone gave me those names a long time ago, but without records.

On the last marriage, the parents of the bride have the same surname, Niggliazzo. That's unusual but does sometimes happen. I just wanted to double check that this is accurate.

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby erudita74 » 03 Sep 2013, 02:59

rp76226 wrote:On the first marriage, could the parents of the groom be Francesco Zabbia and Apollonia Terrusa? Someone gave me those names a long time ago, but without records.

On the last marriage, the parents of the bride have the same surname, Niggliazzo. That's unusual but does sometimes happen. I just wanted to double check that this is accurate.

Ron


In the first record, you can clearly see the name Philipp (Filippo) in Italian. Count down to the 4th line in the record and you will clearly see this. Also the name Apollonia Terrusa is not there. Terrusa is not even a surname in this town.

In the last record, the priest used only the one surname Nigliazzo for both the husband and wife, as in our Mr and Mrs followed by a last name. This was very common in the earlier church records that I have viewed, which leaves the genealogist with the problem of not learning the woman's maiden name. Her maiden name was not necessarily the same as her married name, so don't assume it was because the priest did not include it in the record. The priest simply did not acknowledge her maiden name, unlike in the state civil records where the woman always kept her maiden name throughout her lifetime and was always referred to in the records by her maiden and not married surname.

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby rp76226 » 03 Sep 2013, 04:36

I found a Corleone church record for Francesco Zabbia and Apollonia Terrusa in the following index (image 15, right hand side, record 242):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1693535279

However, based on the record you translated, I am no longer sure that they tie in with family.
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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby erudita74 » 03 Sep 2013, 14:47

rp76226 wrote:I found a Corleone church record for Francesco Zabbia and Apollonia Terrusa in the following index (image 15, right hand side, record 242):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1693535279

However, based on the record you translated, I am no longer sure that they tie in with family.



This record #1466 is dated April 12, 1779
The banns were made on the 4th, 5th, and 6th and resulted in there being no impediments to the marriage
Groom: Francesco Zabbia (note that the surname appears with only one b in this record). He was the son of spouses Baldassare Zabbia and Domenica Nigliazzo
Bride: Apollonia Terrusa, daughter of deceased Antonio Terrusa and living Domenica Gagliano.
Witnesses were Maestro Simone Briganti and Maestro Biaggio Faija

So this Francesco Zabbia is the son of the couple whose marriage record I previously translated for you.

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby rp76226 » 03 Sep 2013, 16:08

Yes. Another family tree on Ancestry.com had them as parents and grandparents of Michelangelo Zabbia (married to Gaetana Castellana), but your translation of Michelangelo's marriage record with the same bride yielding Filippo Zabbia and Caterina? Torre as parents proved that was inaccurate. I have thus taken them off my Tree. I looked for Filippo's marriage record, but have not found them.

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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby erudita74 » 03 Sep 2013, 16:52

Ron
You have to be very careful with trees on ancestry.com. I had a problem years ago with a man with whom I exchanged info via email. Next thing I knew, my info was connected to his on ancestry.com, and the connection was wrong. The ancestry belonged to a distant cousin of mine and, at the time, there were no microfilmed records for his ancestral city. So I wrote to the 13 parishes there, and one of the priests had the ancestors in his registers and sent us copies of the documents. Anyway, because this individual on ancestry.com had the same surname in his ancestry, and the people were living in the same town in NYS, he just assumed there was a connection, which there wasn't. I repeatedly tried to get him to correct it, and even contacted ancestry.com, but to no avail.
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Re: Church Records translation (3)

Postby rp76226 » 03 Sep 2013, 17:25

I know. I try to have multiple points of agreement with my records and theirs before accepting any Ancestry.com hint. I'd rather work from records, but with Italy, most records don't go beyond about 1860, though the province of Bari goes to 1809. It's been my experience that getting an Italian church to even respond to a contact is next to impossible.
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