Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help!

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Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help!

Postby KylieAnn » 09 Sep 2013, 02:25

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I am hoping someone will be able to help me here.

My ancestors Elena Landi and Pietro (aka Guiseppe Pietro or vice-versa) were both born in Italy, in 1868/1869 and 1861 respectively. As far as I could tell from the documents I have, they were both born in Carrara, Italy. The problem is that I emailed Carrara and they said they had no birth record for Elena, and neither did Massa, Italy (I saw Massa listed as her birth place on one document). They did not respond about Pietro's birth certificate, and I am going to try to send them another message about it.

I did receive an extract of their marriage certificate from Carrara, but it did not list birth dates or places. I asked for a full copy of the original document but they did not respond with it.

I need the birth certificates for a court case in Italy to claim Italian citizenship by descent. My attorney said that he could locate documents, but for a fee of 100 euros per document. I want to try to find them without paying so much. Does anyone have any advice on what to do next?
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 09 Sep 2013, 05:50

Welcome to IG
What was the index number and date of the marriage of Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola in Carrara?

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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 09 Sep 2013, 11:08

Marty,

The date of the marriage was May 10, 1888. I'm not sure where to find the index number on the extract. Could you tell me where to find this?

Thank you for your quick response!

Kylie
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 09 Sep 2013, 18:02

Can you post the extract on here so I can see it

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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 09 Sep 2013, 18:45

NEED ANOTHER LOOK BY SOMEONE ELSE
Marriage publication of Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola
INDEX#12
Pietro Lertola widower born in Carrara son of deceased Giuseppe Lertola
and Anna Pelliccia
Elena Landi born in Massa daughter of Carlo Landi and Teresa Giannetti

PG LINK TO MARRIAGE PUBLICATION

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1012938441

I am trying to find the marriage act

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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 09 Sep 2013, 19:20

That is incredible! Thank you. Then why would Elena's birth certificate not be in Massa? My lawyer said this means she may have been born in the province of Massa-Carrara but not in the municipalities of Massa or Carrara.

I have attached the marriage extract.

I will keep searching the Massa births on Family Search in hopes of finding Elena. I did not know her father's name was Carlo, other documents said it was Mario so maybe that is the issue Massa had.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 09 Sep 2013, 22:09

This must be her then!

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1547730447

Elena Landi, di Carlo
Italia, Massa e Carrara, Massa, Stato Civile (Tribunale), 1866-1929
Anno: 1868, Numero di Registro: 474

I sent this to the woman I am in contact with in Massa, hopefully this gets me somewhere.

I found the record I think!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1654541401
Can anyone read this?
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Sep 2013, 23:31

KylieAnn wrote:This must be her then!

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1547730447

Elena Landi, di Carlo
Italia, Massa e Carrara, Massa, Stato Civile (Tribunale), 1866-1929
Anno: 1868, Numero di Registro: 474

I sent this to the woman I am in contact with in Massa, hopefully this gets me somewhere.

I found the record I think!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1654541401
Can anyone read this?


Yes this record is for Maria Ersilia Elena Landi, on 18 August 1868
Parents are the same as the marriage record...
Father - Carlo Landi of deceased Giuseppe
Mother - Teresa Giannetti of deceased Domenico

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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 10 Sep 2013, 00:10

Tessa78 wrote:
Yes this record is for Maria Ersilia Elena Landi, on 18 August 1868
Parents are the same as the marriage record...
Father - Carlo Landi of deceased Giuseppe
Mother - Teresa Giannetti of deceased Domenico

T.



Thank you so much! I am wondering, is her first name Maria Ersilia then? Because her marriage extract just said "Elena" and all of her US documents are Elena (or Ellen/Helen). Or do these records list middle names first? Because for her husband, Giuseppe seems to be listed before Pietro but on all the US documents he goes by Peter/Pietro or Peter Joseph, not Joseph/Giuseppe.

It looks like I'm going to have to get a number of US documents I have amended based on this new information.
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 10 Sep 2013, 02:37

Heres the other marriage publication from Massa

PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n132558538

The marriage allegati from Massa with your records you need
Pietro birth extract
INDEX #171
1861 Dec 10th in the town of Carrara birth of Giusppe Pietro Lertola son of Giuseppe Lertola and Anna Pelliccia

PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Birth extract of Elena Landi
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Cover page of the marriage allegati just start from here and go through the allegati for all records for the marriage they needed
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Marty
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 10 Sep 2013, 02:48

adelfio wrote:Heres the other marriage publication from Massa

PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n132558538

The marriage allegati from Massa with your records you need
Pietro birth extract
INDEX #171
1861 Dec 10th in the town of Carrara birth of Giusppe Pietro Lertola son of Giuseppe Lertola and Anna Pelliccia

PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Birth extract of Elena Landi
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Cover page of the marriage allegati just start from here and go through the allegati for all records for the marriage they needed
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1213560060

Marty


Wow, Marty. I cannot explain how thankful I am for all of this information! You are amazing at this.

Why is it that on the birth extract it says Elena Landi, but on the one I found it says Maria Ersilia Landi?
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 10 Sep 2013, 02:59

Glad to help in your quest The birth act you found is right
those are her birth middle names on the extract it says Elena Landi with all the right info dates parents

MArty
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 10 Sep 2013, 15:07

Thanks to your help the woman in Massa located the birth and marriage records I needed for Elena and has sent them to me! I sent Carrara a request for Pietro's birth record using this new information so hopefully they will be sending that to me. Now I need to amend many documents that are incorrect...
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby adelfio » 10 Sep 2013, 16:11

I am glad it worked out for you with the finding of the records and that you can persue your citizenship process the researchers on here try to do their best
Con piacere
Buona giornata

Marty
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Re: Elena Landi and Pietro Lertola Birth Certificates - Help

Postby KylieAnn » 09 Jan 2014, 14:48

Hello again. Sorry to bring up an old topic but I wanted to give an update. I managed to get Elena's birth certificate and the marriage certificate sent to me exactly as I needed them. However, I can't seem to locate Pietro's birth record. The people I have emailed in Massa and Carrara say they don have it, even with sending detailed information and the document above.

The woman in Massa has told me to check all the other municipalities. Do you think I should just pay the 80 euros to have my attorney in Italy find it? Its getting a bit frustrating to search for this when I speak no italian. Is there any easier way to figure out who holds the record where?
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