General Genealogy Question

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jpgarone
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General Genealogy Question

Postby jpgarone » 10 Mar 2014, 00:16

I recently received a Death Certificate for a man that I believe is my great grandfather, Pasquale Garone. What I know of Pasquale comes primarily from his appearance in the 1910 and 1920 Federal Censuses, all of which exactly match information from my grandfather's death certificate and other documents as well as my family oral history. The information on this Death Certificate matches the census info that I have in his name, approximate year of birth, and street address (from both censuses and even later family documents). The year of entry to the US is not necessarily consistent but the two censuses also conflict with each other on this information. What gives me pause is that the certificate was signed for "Pasquale Garone" who is listed as the son of the deceased. Now, as far as I know, my great grandfather Pasquale didn't have a son by this name. There is no son Pasquale Garone in either of the two censuses that I have. Would you guys accept this as a solid document? It seems to me that the odds of another Pasquale Garone living at that address are very small despite the mystery of this unknown son.

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Tessa78
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby Tessa78 » 10 Mar 2014, 00:26

Hello jpgarone!

We often see errors in US records, including death certificates.

Would you consider posting the death certificate for us to take a look at?
And some facts about your GGF that will help us to verify?

T.

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jpgarone
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby jpgarone » 10 Mar 2014, 01:42

Sure! Here's the front. I don't have the back scanned where it refers to a son named Pasquale. As for facts according to the 1910 and 1920 census he was born on or about 1866. He is not living with the family in the 1930 census. His wife, Anna (Lasso or Iasso) Garone was born on or about 1875. They lived at 397 Manhattan at least between 1910 and 1930. A couple with a similar name also is present in the 1905 NY census, although some of the details are not consistent with the Federal census info (for example the name is down as Pasquala Garrona and the names and genders of the children do not totally correspond to the other info.)

A couple listed as "Pascuale Gasone" b. 1866 and "Anina Lasso" b.1874 arrived at Ellis Island on 4/26/1896 having departed from Naples and listed as having last resided in "Buonale."

That's about all I know.

Thank you for your time.
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Tessa78
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby Tessa78 » 10 Mar 2014, 04:34

Thank you for posting the additional information.

I took a look at the 1910 and 1920 Censuses showing no children with the name Pasquale...

I also looked at the ship manifest for 1896 for Anna Lasso and Pasquale Garone.
The last place of residence - BUONALE - has me stumped :?

I did find records for another Pasquale Garone, born about 1868 and died 1932 in Brooklyn, and buried in Queens...

I am not sure what you mean about the back of the death certificate stating "son Pasquale" - but the other information, particularly the address of 397 Manhattan Ave, seem to indicate that this is your GGF on the death certificate. Is the birthdate correct? 4 Sept 1866?

You might want to contact St. Johns Cemetery and inquire about the information they have about the Pasquale on the death certificate, especially family members. Possibly a record of who paid for the plot and its care.

Saint Johns Cemetery
80-01 Metropolitan Avenue
New York, NY 11379
(718) 416-8600
cathcemetery-bklyn.org‎

T.

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jpgarone
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby jpgarone » 10 Mar 2014, 05:32

Tessa,

Thank you very much for verifying that information.

I suspect and some on these very boards have pointed out that "Buonale" might be a mistranscribed or shortened form of Buonabitcolo in Salerno where Garone is a fairly common surname.

As for the Pasquale who died in 1932, that is an avenue that I never explored due to the fact that Anna is listed as widowed in the 1930 census.

On the back/or second page of the Death Certificate, there is a section where the undertaker certifies that he has been employed by a family member and it states that he has been employed by Pasquale Garone, the son of the deceased.

The Death Certificate is the only document that I have that has an actual birthdate on it. All I can really tell from the other documents is a rough birth year.

I actually went to St. Johns this past summer to visit the graves of some family members and I was able to locate the grave for the Pasquale Garone associated with this death certificate. Here's where it gets even stranger: Pasquale is buried with Anna, although his birthdate on the headstone does not exactly match the death certificate (September 4 1866 on the DC and September 10, 18XX on the headstone) although the date of death is correct. The strange part is that they are buried with a Charles Garone who is on the headstone under the words "Beloved Son" and is listed as living between 1926 and 1944.

Mind you, Anna would have been in her early fifties in 1926 and her last child on record was born in 1917. They did however have a grandson through their son George Garone who was named Charles and who was born approximately in 1927.

Would it be safe to assume that George paid for the headstone and first buried his father, then son, and finally his mother (that is the order that they are inscribed on the stone)?

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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby suanj » 10 Mar 2014, 06:08

Hi,
I believe that "Buonale" on the ship's manifest http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord
it is wrong spelling and I believe that Buonabitacolo is the correct spelling; as a well Anna maiden name must be Sasso and no Lasso..
just a suggestion,
regards,
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ITALIAN ORIGIN SEARCH

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jpgarone
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby jpgarone » 10 Mar 2014, 18:13

Thank you, Suanj.

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Tessa78
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby Tessa78 » 11 Mar 2014, 16:33

jpgarone wrote:Tessa,

Thank you very much for verifying that information.

I suspect and some on these very boards have pointed out that "Buonale" might be a mistranscribed or shortened form of Buonabitcolo in Salerno where Garone is a fairly common surname. Yes, I would agree, and as you can see from post by suanj :D she also agrees with this comune

As for the Pasquale who died in 1932, that is an avenue that I never explored due to the fact that Anna is listed as widowed in the 1930 census. An odd thing about "widow" on early censuses... because of the stigma of being divorced or abandoned, women would often tell censustakers their status as a widow... so you can not say definitively that she was actually a widow unless you find the death record of her spouse to verify :-)

On the back/or second page of the Death Certificate, there is a section where the undertaker certifies that he has been employed by a family member and it states that he has been employed by Pasquale Garone, the son of the deceased. This possibly may have been a lapse of concentration error by the undertaker...

The Death Certificate is the only document that I have that has an actual birthdate on it. All I can really tell from the other documents is a rough birth year.

I actually went to St. Johns this past summer to visit the graves of some family members and I was able to locate the grave for the Pasquale Garone associated with this death certificate. Here's where it gets even stranger: Pasquale is buried with Anna, although his birthdate on the headstone does not exactly match the death certificate (September 4 1866 on the DC and September 10, 18XX on the headstone) although the date of death is correct. The strange part is that they are buried with a Charles Garone who is on the headstone under the words "Beloved Son" and is listed as living between 1926 and 1944. Not uncommon for the dates on headstones (birthdate especially) to be in error...

Mind you, Anna would have been in her early fifties in 1926 and her last child on record was born in 1917. They did however have a grandson through their son George Garone who was named Charles and who was born approximately in 1927.

Would it be safe to assume that George paid for the headstone and first buried his father, then son, and finally his mother (that is the order that they are inscribed on the stone)?
Definitely a possibility...you might verify that with the administration at the cemetery.



Another thing you might want to do is write directly to the comune of Buonabitacolo to request the birth record for Pasquale Garone born 4-10 September 1866.
If he married Anna Sasso/Lasso in Italy, there MAY also be a notation on the birth record, or the comune should have a Pubblicazione [marriage banns] record for him.

Address:
Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Via Provinciale
84032 Buonabitacolo (SA)
ITALY


Help with letters of request in Italian...
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... talrecords
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... tter3.html

T.

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Tessa78
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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby Tessa78 » 11 Mar 2014, 22:26

You may find this interesting...
there were 3 deaths with name of Pasquale Garone in NY from 1928-1933
AND - all about the same age!

Garone Pasquale 61 y Apr 1 1928 #7356 Kings
Garone Pasquale 64 y Feb 15 1928 #4575 Manhattan
Garone Pasquale 64 y May 5 1932 #10277 Kings


Here is the NYC Death index entry for Charles Garone who is on the headstone you saw.
You may be able to request his death record to check the names of his parents...

Garone Charles 18 y Sep 12 1944 #18056 Kings


T.

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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby garonedw » 30 Sep 2015, 20:37

I would be interested in joining this discussion regarding Garone's in the US. We are from Padula, not Buonabitacolo, and there is no Pasquale in our lineage.

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Re: General Genealogy Question

Postby garonedw » 30 Sep 2015, 20:52

I just joined this site but I am intersted in your research jpgarone. I will update my bio soon, or you can reach out to me here. The name Vincent on the death certificate interests me since that is a very common name around Padula and also Buonabitacolo.


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