born somewhere in calabria

wldspirit · Post by **wldspirit** » 15 May 2005, 06:28

Outstanding!!!!!!! We have a GREAT team here at Italian Genealogy!!!!!!!
Spent the day touring RV's.......so I need to read all the post to catch up,
but it looks like the mystery is solved...........
wldspirit

tjcort · Post by **tjcort** » 15 May 2005, 06:42

I've think I given all of the data that I have after looking through all of my stuff again,,,,,but the mystery may not be solved quite yet ...but I have confidence that your team cancrack this one
Regards
TC

DonnaPellegrin · Post by **DonnaPellegrin** » 15 May 2005, 08:06

TC,

I looked for Cristina at Ellis Island. (Italians would not spell the name Christina). Found zip. There were in fact no listings for the spelling you gave of her last name at all. There were some very close "sound alike" names. No Cristina though.

I think that you may have better luck by writing to the local municipio at Nicastro.

In fact, if I were you I would write three letters simultaneously to the local municipios at Nicastro, San Giovanni in Fiore and Cotronei.

If that fails, you might consider hiring a pro. There are several on this board. At least two that I know of have replied in this thread. And I know of one in particular in San Giovanni in Fiore.

In the meanwhile, you might start looking for Bruno's descendants. Maybe they have knowledge that your family did not.

Another source you might tap is the WWI draft records on Ancestry.com. Look for Bruno and Antonio/Tony. I don't subscribe myself, but others here do and the public libraries usually have access.

You are so close to your goal.
Don't give up yet.

wldspirit · Post by **wldspirit** » 15 May 2005, 12:22

I agree with you Donna.....I've gone thru all the manifest and the census....
but I'm not sure we have Antonio nailed down yet.....

calling it a night........not to worry TC.........we have far more than we started with..

......in the meantime, here is an faq which covers dual citizenship and various issues associated with the subject............

http://www.italiamerica.org/id71.htm

and another you may find helpful and interesting.........

http://www.expatsinitaly.com/

wldspirit

tjcort · Post by **tjcort** » 15 May 2005, 20:59

I knew something did not seem right yet.....

OK , the 1910 census record said that Antonio is already a widow, which is consistent with my marriage certificate which said that his wife died in 1909.

However, this is inconsistent with the ships manifest of his 1898 arrival which show him again as a widower. Was Antonio married three times ???

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 15 May 2005, 21:29

This is just my opinion... opinion only....

In order for Antonio to REMARRY... he may have needed further documents in order to proceed with his marriage in the USA.

Polygamy was a problem at one time... and that is why you see a special section for this on ship records. Some husbands remarried in the USA and left families back home in Italy... happened in my Italian town too...

The document that you have actually says his first wife died in 1909 ??? or is it a document written in 1909 the varified her death at an earlier date?

In one of the pages... you wrote that the marriage was dissolved in 1909...

His former marriage to Maria was disolved by death in 1909

I don't want to review 5 pages again here... when did he marry Cristina?

mfjp

tjcort · Post by **tjcort** » 15 May 2005, 21:38

The marriage certificate that I have says that his marriage was dissolved by death in 1909 and his marriage to Christina was in October 1912,

brujaojos · Post by **brujaojos** » 15 May 2005, 22:10

tjcort wrote:I knew something did not seem right yet.....

OK , the 1910 census record said that Antonio is already a widow, which is consistent with my marriage certificate which said that his wife died in 1909.

However, this is inconsistent with the ships manifest of his 1898 arrival which show him again as a widower. Was Antonio married three times ???

Hi There,

My personal opinion is that the 1898 manifest is wrong. However, .....

1. This could be a mistake on the person at Ellis Island that was taking down the information.

2. This could be a mistake by the person who now is transcribing this records to be put online.

3. As Mfjp stated, he could have left family behind which is not unusual.

4. He could have been married in Italy to Maria and then brought her over at a later date.

It's all heresay until you get more actual documentation to prove all this.

Now, my suggestion to you is to reread all the posts that everyone wrote here. Try to copy and paste it into a word doc so that you can go over it all and look at all the clues everyone gave you.

Next you have to start writing for documents. Such as:

1. Death Certificate of Antonio Cortese.

2. The Marriage Application of Antonio and Cristina from Morton. (I know you have the Certificate, you need the application.) The Application should list his parents as well as some other information.

3. You have tons of clues that the family is from Nicastro with the Ship's manifest. You even know the names of the parents of Antonio as well as Antonio's siblings per the other manifests and census information.

4. You have to write to the towns and/or order the microfilm just like everyone here has suggested.

Remember, everyone here is only trying to help you out, it's up to you get the documentation to prove it all.

Have a good one.
Trish

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 15 May 2005, 22:21

You wrote...

gee now I'm confused......I thought the Antonio I was looking for came from San G of F ?

Also I thought someone said my Antonio first wife died in the US ?

Help ??

You don't have any proof at this point WHERE she died... no document... this one is a tough one... maybe you should consider hiring a researcher...I think someone may have already mentioned that to you. You have had the best free help here.. and I for one don't give up easily either. I just can't understand why you failed to provide valuable info as to who Antonio's parents were after many hours of research time was done by the best members here at this forum... just want to be fair.

tjcort · Post by **tjcort** » 15 May 2005, 22:45

GEE ...I'm sorry if I offended anyone AND I really do appreciate all of Everyone's help...

I'm not being critical of anyone or of their efforts. I have a mass of material and I thought that I wa sanswerering questions to thebest of my knowledge as they were posed to me . Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm just looking for some help

Thanks
TC

JamesBianco · Post by **JamesBianco** » 16 May 2005, 00:28

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918

Antonio Cortese Oct 18 1895 White Italy Manhattan, New York, NY

Domenico Antonio Cortese 1 Mar 1898 White Jefferson, OH

Antonio Cortese 19 Jun 1896 Italy Not Stated, Washington, PA

Bruno Cortese 18 Feb 1888 Caucasian Italy Not Stated, Elkhart, IN

If you want more details on these cards or the images let me know

Jim

VaDeb · Post by **VaDeb** » 16 May 2005, 00:32

TC,

You do have a mass of material here. You have to organize it and make sense of it. Where does it fit and where are things that don't. Review Trish's post above. The marriage application she told you to obtain is very important for the information it contains. GEt a chart or computer program to write down the family tree and all the information. The census she provided also seems critical to this situation. But you have to prove all this. A census does not constitue legal proof for citizenship.

By the way, Ancestry.com has 14 WWII draft cards for Cortese in Pennsylvania. You may want to review these at a library or FHC. One is for an Antonio born June 19, 1896 in S. Giovanni Fiore. He lived in Houston, PA and worked for Pittsbourgh Coal Co. Name of nearest relative is Salvatore Cortese.

Debbie

brujaojos · Post by **brujaojos** » 16 May 2005, 01:09

tjcort wrote:GEE ...I'm sorry if I offended anyone AND I really do appreciate all of Everyone's help...

I'm not being critical of anyone or of their efforts. I have a mass of material and I thought that I wa sanswerering questions to thebest of my knowledge as they were posed to me . Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm just looking for some help

Thanks
TC

Dear TC,

LetÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s just try to put some closure on the information you have. With the help of everyone from myself, Mfjp, Wldspirit, VaDeb, Donna P, Riccardo, and whomever else I forgot, we have gathered tons of information for you.

You have stated that Antonio Cortese was married twice. The first time to Maria DiBlasi, and the second time to Cristina Pacuzzi.

You also stated after hours of research on everyoneÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s part, the following, Ã¢â‚¬Å“Also, I have a letter from CITTA di Lamezia Terme that says nothing for Antonio with a birth date in 1876 but an Antonio with a birth date of 16 Luglio 1878...... His father is listed as Francesco & maiden name of mother is Pellegrino and her christian name is Serafina ...... but that's not my grandfather, AntonioÃ¢â‚¬Â

tjcort · Post by **tjcort** » 16 May 2005, 01:36

Thanks everyone, I think I have a lot more now than I did 48 hours ago.....you are all very talanted and resourceful...The cenus data is 100% clear and convincing... That is my grandfather and his family on the 1910 & 1920 census.... no doubt about it

Now Ijust have to find out where Antonio was born, and the possiblities so far are Nicastro, San G of F. Since I already have something from Nicastro, but its not correct, I'll need to hire someone to go and personally check thier records. And I'm going to have someone loook in San G. of F for the first time.

Again, my only problem is in the Italian records. I have everything I need to obtain dual citizenship, in certified records to prove my direct lineage to my grandfather, who never became a Naturalized citizen. My Father was born in the USA and obviously he never renounced Italian citizenship as he never knew he had it ( or the right to it to begin with.

The Consulate in both Boston where I lived and NY where I am now , need to see an Italian birth certificate with the exact date of birth that is on the only other document which I have , the marriage certificate, which shows , July 16, 1876..... That's my diliemma. Even if I have the correct Antonio, but if he recorded his birthday wrong or not the same on the two documents, I'm toast .... That's what I have been trying to overcome for years of writing back and forth with a dozen communes in Calabria . Either no record at all OR many many Antonio's but none with the correct DOB to match his marriage certificate.

It would be really nice to do family tree and I am going to start that project now that you all have given me so much. But for years I have concentrated on just Antonio's birth certificate but to no avail

Thanks and Regards<
TC

VaDeb · Post by **VaDeb** » 16 May 2005, 03:00

There is microfilm records available for San G or F. You can consult these records yourself and know for sure if he was born there. It would only cost about $4.00. I think this information was given to you early on, so excuse the repeat. So, if you are split between Nicastro and San G of F as a birth place this would answer the question.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... umns=*,0,0

Debbie

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