payment for documents

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payment for documents

Postby crystalblue » 06 May 2014, 19:59

I have finally gotten a response from the State Archives in Reggio Calabria to obtain the documents needed for citizenship.

When I read it, it looks like I have to send cash.

Gentile signor Crystal Prussick, come da richiesta inviataci il 30 aprile c.a., in merito al rilascio di copie autentiche dei documenti, per USO CITTADINANZA, di seguito citati:
Atto di nascita di Suraci Domenico, Gallico 1872 di Vincenzo e Chirico Maria
Atto di nascita di Casciano Angela, Gallico 1873 di Antonino e Calabrò Chiara
Atto di matrimonio di Suraci Domenico e Casciano Angela, Gallico 1898
SI PRECISA
che deve inviare a questo Archivio, (via Lia Casalotto, 89122 Reggio Calabria), in BUSTA RACCOMANDATA, in cartamoneta, € 60,00 (€16,00 x 3 marche + € 12,00 per spedizione).
Tali copie, autenticate e marcate, saranno vistate dalla Prefettura di Reggio Calabria e poi inviate, con posta raccomandata, all'indirizzo del destinatario.

Cordiamente
Maria Stella Zema


It does not seem wise to me to send cash through the mail, especially not having any idea who is on the receiving end.

Thoughts???
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Re: payment for documents

Postby adelfio » 06 May 2014, 23:31

Mark the letter and the response OGGETTO: Maria Stella Zema on your return envelope and put your 60 euros in a small envelope marked pagamento inside the envelope you are sending for your documents
I have sent Euro before to different Archivio di Stato's with no problems


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Re: payment for documents

Postby crystalblue » 07 May 2014, 01:48

I feel better hearing that! Thank you so much :)

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Re: payment for documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 May 2014, 13:56

60 euros? I have obtained state archives (Cosenza) documents in the past but never paid more than 3 or 4 euros in total.

Did you contact the comune directly? The last time I checked, Italian law requires that comuni provide these documents to non-residents at no charge other than postage and most comuni forgo that cost as well.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby adelfio » 07 May 2014, 14:03

Response she posted
Dear Mr. Crystal Prussick like to request that you send us about April 30, on the issuance of certified copies of documents, to USE CITIZENSHIP, hereafter cited:
Birth of Domenico Suraci, Welsh 1872 Vincenzo and Maria Chirico
Birth of Angela Casciano, Welsh 1873 Antonino Calabro and Clare
Marriage Certificate of Suraci Dominic and Angela Casciano, Welsh 1898
PLEASE NOTE
you must send in this Archive (via Lia Casalotto, 89122 Reggio Calabria), in ENVELOPE LETTER, in paper money, € 60.00 (€ 16.00 x 3 brands + € 12,00 per shipment).
These copies, certified and labeled, will be endorsed by the Prefecture of Reggio Calabria and then sent, by registered mail, to the address of the recipient

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Re: payment for documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 May 2014, 14:22

They are charging her for a level of certification not normally required for jure sanguinis-related documents originating from Italy. Simple stamped documents without Marca da Bollo should be sufficient.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby jennabet » 07 May 2014, 16:09

Marca da Bollo is a tax. We have an economic and financial crisis in Italy. Perhaps you haven't heard that the current administration is collecting taxes whenever and wherever possible. Makes perfect sense to me. Document seekers should expect more of the same.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 May 2014, 17:10

jennabet wrote:Marca da Bollo is a tax. We have an economic and financial crisis in Italy. Perhaps you haven't heard that the current administration is collecting taxes whenever and wherever possible. Makes perfect sense to me. Document seekers should expect more of the same.



I know what it is and what it is for, but this level of certification is not normally required for Italian documents used for jure sanguinis applications. Typically the documents are requested directly from the comune and the only "certification" provided is the stato civile official's rubber stamp and signature and they are nearly always provided free of charge to non-residents.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby crystalblue » 08 May 2014, 11:16

I thought it would be cheaper, as well, from what I had read on other posts. But Primo Mattino recently went to the Archives and was told that the commune no longer has the originals. All documents are now held by the State Archives. So now I am confused...have I asked for the wrong format for documents needed for citizenship?
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Re: payment for documents

Postby jennabet » 08 May 2014, 11:58

No, you haven't asked for the wrong documents but the archive is charging you a tax. I'm not surprised that the commune no longer keeps the records as communes DO have work to handle for the residents of the municipality other than searching for old documents and mailing them out to descendants. In fact residents rarely need such documents but they do need other services. I would expect that more communes will soon follow suit and let the archives handle this work as the communes are no doubt bogged down by all the requests.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby PippoM » 08 May 2014, 11:59

I think Carmine is right. I got documents for several people who had to use them for their Italian citizenship, and I never had to get them with "marche da bollo" on. Moreover, Italian law states that government agencies can not request documents issued by other government agencies (such as Communes or Ministries), but they have to accept self-declarations and if needing such documents have to get them from other agencies BY THEMSELVES. Now, I don't know if there's a derogation of such law for citizenship, but I think that providing certificates in one's citizenship request only is intended to help the actual search of documents on government side. Moreover, info about ancestors that should be provided in a self-declaration are usually found by the requester in the certificate itself, so it's often easier and safer to provide a certificate "to cut bull's head"
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Re: payment for documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 08 May 2014, 14:42

Crystal, my suspicion is that you made the mistake of requesting "certified copies" of your documents and that is what the archives plans to provide. The thing is, "certified" means something substantially different in Italy than what you are probably used to in the US and, as Pippo pointed out above, is generally unnecessary. At this point and especially if time is of the essence, you could pay the 60 euros in the manner suggested by Marty (I have done the same although in much smaller amounts), or you could make a new document request leaving out any reference to certification.

As to the comune not having the documents, I have found that in almost every case this is due to local records having been destroyed by fire, flood, mold/mildew, or even war (as the famed destruction of nearly all civil and church records at Monte Cassino during WWII bombing runs). It would, in my opinion, be most unusual for a comune to dispose of their own copies of civil records (birth/marriage/death) unless they are damaged beyond all recognition.

For an interesting read, I would suggest that anyone seriously researching their Italian heritage obtain a copy of Italian Genealogical Records: How to Use Italian Civil, Ecclesiastical & Other Records in Family History Research by Trafford R. Cole. It is well worth the cost.
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Re: payment for documents

Postby Primo Mattino » 08 May 2014, 15:00

Hi crystalblue, I have posted another PM for you.
Johnnyonthespot, several qualified people assured me the the commune of Reggio Calabria has thrown away their own copies of the civil state of the 19th and early 20th century about 15 years ago. I did not believe that and asked the commune to give me permission to take pictures of some 18th century volumes that are missing in the State Archive. The answer was that they did not have those volumes anymore. Reggio Calabria is not like the rest of the civilised world.
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