RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Are you looking for an Italian surname? Do you need more information about your family heritage?
This is the right place to start your genealogy search.
mezzogiorno62
Elite
Elite
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 01:41

RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 21 May 2014, 02:12

I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING A MARRIAGE FOR YEARS NOW IN THE PROVINCE OF MESSINA.THE NAMES ARE DOMENICO BONARRIGO AND MATTIA PULEIO.PROBABLY MARRIED CA.1830-1847 AS THEIR DAUGHTER,MARIA,WAS BORN IN GUALTIERI SICAMINO IN 1847.THE MARRIAGE WASN'T FOUND IN GUALTIERI.THE ARCHIVIO DI STATO IN MESSINA SEARCHED SEVERAL COMUNI IN THE VICINITY OF GUALTIERI.ONE WAS FOUND THATS A CLOSE MATCH.SANTA LUCIA DEL MELA IN 1845 FOR DOMENICO BONARRIGO AGE 24(FRANCESCO AND GRAZIA RIZZO) AND MATTIA RIGULO/VIGULO? AGE 26(PADRE IGNOTO AND CARMELA RIGULO/VIGULO?).MATTIA IS VERY RARE AND NOTHING REMOTELY CLOSE WAS FOUND TO THIS.JUST WONDERING IF RIGULO/VIGULO? IS A CORRUPTION OR MISSPELLING OF PULEIO.I SEARCHED PASSENGER RECORDS(ELLIS ISLAND) AND SURNAMES IN SICILY-AND NOT ONE RIGULO/VIGULO? WAS FOUND.PULEIO IS SOMEWHAT COMMON IN MESSINA AND BONARRIGO VERY COMMON.WHATS ODD IS THAT,ACCORDING TO THIS 1845 MARRIAGE IN SANTA LUCIA DEL MELA,DOMENICO WAS BORN IN TRESILOCO OPPIDO MAMERTINA(REGGIO CALABRIA),AN UNUSUAL DISTANCE AND ON THE MAINLAND,WHILE MATTIA WAS FROM SAN FILIPPO DEL MELA,NOT FAR FROM SANTA LUCIA.SO NEITHER OF THE TWO WAS FROM SANTA LUCIA.AS THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER MARRIAGES IN THE VICINITY OF GUALTIERI FOR THIS TIME PERIOD WITH REMOTELY SIMILIAR NAMES,I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH MORE CERTAINTY HERE,AS I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE TO GO ON.ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE MOST WELCOME.I'VE BEEN WORKING THIS FOR YEARS!

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11411
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby Tessa78 » 21 May 2014, 04:02

Did you notice that one of the witnesses to the marriage of Domenico Bonariggo and Mattia Rigulo is Don Pasquale Celi PULEIO, age 24, landowner...

I do not know the connection... but it is possible that Mattia (whose father was not named) was the daughter of a member of the Puleio family. It may be that she was later "acknowledged."

Just thinking out loud! :-)

Bottom right of image (page 3 of marriage document)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

T.

mezzogiorno62
Elite
Elite
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 01:41

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 21 May 2014, 14:09

i wish i could confirm that tessa.no way to do it.i didnt notice the puleio name,but i searched the surname ruligo everywhere-in ellis island passenger records and sicilian surname databases.it doesn't exist!if it did,there would be at least a few found in the sicilian surname databases,or a few who immigrated from italy to ellis island.nothing.its too bad that this dreaded"ignoti genitori"is everywhere,especially in sicily.my paternal grandmother was ignoti,and in turn was informally"adopted"by her wetnurse,maria bonarrigo.domenico bonarrigo and mattia puleio were her parents.now ignoti comes up again in my grandmother's adoptive grandmother.too much.was anyone legitimate in this place and time?i've been trying to find the marriage of maria bonarrigo and francesco landino(from palermo)for years now,searching virtually every comune in the area of gualtieri sicamino where maria bonarrigo was born(francesco was from palermo,but the marriage didn't occur there)with nothing.the messina archivio di stato kindly searched many of these surrounding comuni,and all they could come up with is this entry.the name mattia is uncommon(maria bonarrigo named her child mattia,probably for maria's mother mattia)andthis mattia married a domenico bonarrigo.and the ages of the subjects,24 and 26 in 1845,would match maria bonarrigo,born in 1847.i just need to tie it all together-and guesswork and substantial evidence don't do it.mattia's original birth record would help somewhat(domenico bonarrigo's doesnt matter,as both his parents are identified)but as she was 26 in early 1845,most likely she was born ca.1818/1819-just before civil registration in sicily,which began in 1820.whats also odd is that,with bonarrigo being such an extremely common surname in messina,this domenico wasn't even born in sicily.he was from tresiloco oppido mamertina,in reggio calabria.i wonder if long complicated and entangled searches like this are the norm for everyone doing genealogy in this area????note:i read page 5 of the marriage document.didn't realize it continued on to another page.i saw the entry for the witness,pasquale puleio.he was 24-same age as domenico bonarrigo,mattia's husband.possibly mattia's brother-or some relative.frustrating!!!by the way tessa,is there any way to foorward records like this as attachments?i see no option at the www.antenati,san@ beniculturali.it site to do this.how did you do it?i'd like to make a copy of this record for my research.i've been able to do it at ancestry,family search,etc.but i see no option to do it here

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11411
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby Tessa78 » 21 May 2014, 16:29

mezzogiorno62 wrote:i wish i could confirm that tessa.no way to do it. You might find information on the marriage records... i didnt notice the puleio name,but i searched the surname ruligo It is spelled RIGULO or RIZULO on the record. everywhere-in ellis island passenger records and sicilian surname databases.it doesn't exist!if it did,there would be at least a few found in the sicilian surname databases,or a few who immigrated from italy to ellis island.nothing.its too bad that this dreaded"ignoti genitori"is everywhere,especially in sicily. Yes, the name is probably a "fantasy name" made up by the official... my paternal grandmother was ignoti,and in turn was informally"adopted"by her wetnurse,maria bonarrigo.domenico bonarrigo and mattia puleio were her parents.now ignoti comes up again in my grandmother's adoptive grandmother.too much.was anyone legitimate in this place and time?i've been trying to find the marriage of maria bonarrigo and francesco landino(from palermo)for years now,searching virtually every comune in the area of gualtieri sicamino where maria bonarrigo was born(francesco was from palermo,but the marriage didn't occur there)with nothing.the messina archivio di stato kindly searched many of these surrounding comuni,and all they could come up with is this entry.the name mattia is uncommon(maria bonarrigo named her child mattia,probably for maria's mother mattia)andthis mattia married a domenico bonarrigo.and the ages of the subjects,24 and 26 in 1845,would match maria bonarrigo,born in 1847.i just need to tie it all together-and guesswork and substantial evidence don't do it. You are absolutely correct in that! mattia's original birth record would help somewhat(domenico bonarrigo's doesnt matter,as both his parents are identified)but as she was 26 in early 1845,most likely she was born ca.1818/1819-just before civil registration in sicily,which began in 1820.whats also odd is that,with bonarrigo being such an extremely common surname in messina,this domenico wasn't even born in sicily.he was from tresiloco oppido mamertina,in reggio calabria.i wonder if long complicated and entangled searches like this are the norm for everyone doing genealogy in this area????note:i read page 5 of the marriage document.didn't realize it continued on to another page.i saw the entry for the witness,pasquale puleio.he was 24-same age as domenico bonarrigo,mattia's husband.possibly mattia's brother-or some relative. My thoughts as well... frustrating!!!by the way tessa,is there any way to foorward records like this as attachments?i see no option at the http://www.antenati,san@ beniculturali.it site to do this.how did you do it?i'd like to make a copy of this record for my research.i've been able to do it at ancestry,family search,etc.but i see no option to do it here I believe these documents can only be "saved" as a link. I do not know of a way to legally copy them from this site.


T.

mezzogiorno62
Elite
Elite
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 01:41

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 21 May 2014, 16:33

how do i do it as a link?not very tech savy on the pc lol.what exactly do i need to do to save it as a link?note:so the mothers surname"rigulo"or whatever it is,is probably just another given name-like trovato,esposito,or in my paternal grandmothers case,costante.this fictitious surname makes the mothers identity as vague as the unknown father.this ignoti genitori issue was rampant in sicily for some reason.my paternal grandfather was born in luogosano avellino.i was able to find his parents births,marriage,and deaths-as well as some information on his grandparents.not one single ignoti in the bunch.my dead end only came as a result of the time frame.my grandfather was born in 1870.his father in 1815.his mother in 1830.civil records only began on the mainland in 1809.that means i couldn't get my gg grandparents births(all born before 1809).i was lucky to find my gg grandparents marriages.1 in 1803(luckily a parish record,which is hard to obtain,as parishes rarely,if ever,in my experience,respond).the other in 1827.so the time frames ended my paternal grandfathers lineage.my grandmother's has been the problem,starting with her ignoti genitori birth in barcellona pg messina in 1883.and unlike my grandfather,whose complete lineage only extended to 4 comuni within a few miles of his birthplace,my grandmothers was all over the map.francesco landino,her adoptive father(husband of maria bonarrigo)was from palermo.maria bonarrigo from gualtieri sicamino.maria's possible parents(domenico and mattia rigulo?)from reggio calabria(tresiloco oppido mamertina)and san filippo del mela.literally everywhere from palermo in the west of sicily to reggio calabria on the mainland!and my grandmother in barcellona pg.no consistency at all-and scattered with unknown parents"ignoti".no wonder i've hardly scratched the surface here in 15 years!!!i had all my grandfather's info in a couple of years.anyway,no idea how i can work with this 1845 marriage.these could be the correct subjects,but nothing to go on

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11411
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby Tessa78 » 21 May 2014, 16:35

mezzogiorno62 wrote:how do i do it as a link?not very tech savy on the pc lol.what exactly do i need to do to save it as a link?


When you are on the page, copy the URL...

I like to keep my links in a word document for each individual or family.
Just paste the URL into the word document.

Have you used the familysearch.org site for the records? You can save the records there.... :-)
For these records (because they are on the archive site) you will need to visit your nearest LDS Family History Center to access them online...
https://familysearch.org/search/image/i ... %3D1935770

BTW - you might also try Church records before 1820 :-)

Help with letters to priest
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... tter4.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... rishpriest

EDIT TO ADD:
This is the closest church I could find to San Filippo del Mela... It is in Santa Lucia del Mela :-)

PARROCCHIA S.MARIA ANNUNZIATA
Via Giuseppe Garibaldi 56
98046 Santa Lucia Del Mela (ME)
ITALY


T.

mezzogiorno62
Elite
Elite
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 01:41

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 21 May 2014, 17:02

what is the url?anyway,i'm at my local library,so maybe they can help.regarding church records.no idea what church existed in santa lucia in 1845.the issue with church records are twofold.first,they virtually never respond.i've recieved 2 documents in 15 years.1 marriage for my paternal gg grandparents marriage in 1803(lapio avellino)and 1 for my paternal grandmothers baptism at s.sebastiano,barcellona pg,in 1883.thats it.two.and i've written over a hundred letters to various parishes in avellino and messina.also,as many comunes had more than one parish(no problem in small comunes like luogosano,with a population of 1,000)but an issue in larger comunes like barcellona pg,with large populations.no way to determine what parish existed or may contain the birth,marriage,or death records of ancestors 150-200 years ago.thats why the civil records time frames of 1809(mainland italy)and 1820(sicily)generally end any possible research

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11411
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby Tessa78 » 21 May 2014, 17:36

mezzogiorno62 wrote:what is the url? It is the internet address line at the top of your scrieen...anyway,i'm at my local library,so maybe they can help.regarding church records.no idea what church existed in santa lucia in 1845. Usually the local church today will hold the records from that time... the issue with church records are twofold.first,they virtually never respond. I would suggest sending a donation. While the civil records are free by law, not so for the churches. i've recieved 2 documents in 15 years.1 marriage for my paternal gg grandparents marriage in 1803(lapio avellino)and 1 for my paternal grandmothers baptism at s.sebastiano,barcellona pg,in 1883.thats it.two.and i've written over a hundred letters to various parishes in avellino and messina.also,as many comunes had more than one parish(no problem in small comunes like luogosano,with a population of 1,000)but an issue in larger comunes like barcellona pg,with large populations.no way to determine what parish existed or may contain the birth,marriage,or death records of ancestors 150-200 years ago.thats why the civil records time frames of 1809(mainland italy)and 1820(sicily)generally end any possible research


T.

mezzogiorno62
Elite
Elite
Posts: 409
Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 01:41

Re: RESEARCH IN MESSINA

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 21 May 2014, 17:40

i'm familiar with the "ins and outs"of the way parishes in italy work.i've sent donations several times-with no response.even to the diocesan offices in avellino and messina.nothing.and again,how much to send.euro/us?money order?it gets pretty sticky.been there done that.


Return to “Italian Genealogy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 14 guests