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Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 04 Jul 2014, 17:18

Saluti-

For all those with American connections out there, Happy 4th of July! Or, if not, and you're just in a general celebratory mood... :D

I'm looking for some information for very close friends of mine (sort of a long-time "extended family" to me). I may not be able to fill in all the blanks, but here goes...

Luigi Carmie Ruggiano

My friend's maternal great grandfather. U.S. Naturalization records indicate a DOB of 9 Feb 1887, in Accadia, Italy. Purportedly, came to America (New York) on 19 Feb 1903 on "Napolitan Prince Line" from Savignano, Italy (is/was that a port town?), but I can't find any record of this. Am looking for said record and also anything related, e.g., birth record (atti di nascita), parents names, etc.

[Note: I did find a "Luigi Ruggiano" from Accadie arriving in 1920 at the age of 23 in the Ellis Island records, but this is an impossibility, as my friend's maternal grandmother, Madeline Ruggiano, was born in the U.S. in 1913.]

Luigi married to:

Maria Carmela Ruggiano (Visconti)

My friend's maternal great grandmother. U.S. Naturalization records indicate a DOB of 26 Oct 1883, in Monteleone di Puglia, Italy. Came to America (New York) on 7 June 1911 on SS Duca di Genova (Port of Naples). Small wrinkle here in that the name on the ship manifest was "Carmela" Visconti (note: one Family Search record suggests/posts last name as "Viscanti", but I don't believe this name spelling to be correct). Also, her 1950 U.S Naturalization record is incorrect in at least one way in that she states that both her birthday and her husband's birthday was 26 Oct 1883. Same request as above as per availability of any personal or familial records, etc.

[As an aside, Maria/Carmela was married to Luigi in the U.S. on 28 Jan 1912 in Little Falls New York.]

The Carmela angle is a bit confusing to me in that there's a second person of that same name that came to America on 26 Sep 1906 on SS Germania (see line 22). What's (potentially) interesting is this person was from Monteleone, too, and also headed to Little Falls, New York. Manifest says she was married and was going to relative "Clemente _______" ?(sp.). Also, she traveled with her daughter?? The manifest is very difficult to read. Maybe a relative to the "other" Carmela?

I will eventually make inquiries as to this friend's paternal great grandparents, too (not quite as much detailed information for them). In the meantime, any help here is greatly appreciated...

p.s. - not to play favorites here at all, but a special "hello" to tessa78! :D
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby Tessa78 » 05 Jul 2014, 03:50

Hi mjclayton1 :-) !

Is this the Naturalization you are referencing?


Florida, Naturalization Records, 1847-1995 about Maria Carmela Ruggiano
Name: Maria Carmela Ruggiano
[Maria Carmela Visconti]
Birth Date: 26 Oct 1883
Birth Place: Monteleone Di Puglia, Italy
Age: 67
Origin: Italian
Spouse's Name: Louis C Ruggiano
Marriage Date: 28 Jan 1912
Marriage Place: Little Falls, N Y
Naturalization Date: 17 Aug 1951
Naturalization Place: Miami, Florida, USA
Doc Type: Petition
Petition Number: 11566
District Court Location: Miami, Florida

AND... you have this CERTIFICATE OF ARRIVAL?
This is what was issued when a search of an immigrant's arrival was made for the naturalization process. This certificate indicates that she arrived in 1911 on the Duca di Genova under the name Carmela Visconti.

Image


You wrote:
The Carmela angle is a bit confusing to me in that there's a second person of that same name that came to America on 26 Sep 1906 on SS Germania (see line 22). What's (potentially) interesting is this person was from Monteleone, too, and also headed to Little Falls, New York. Manifest says she was married and was going to relative "Clemente _______" ?(sp.). Also, she traveled with her daughter?? The manifest is very difficult to read. Maybe a relative to the "other" Carmela?

This Carmela is going to her "husband Clemente Lamanna, 41 Jefferson St., Little Falls, NY"
And is traveling with her daughter Giuseppa Lamanna (the line below)


Also located this possible arrival manifest for Luigi Ruggiano in 1910
The birth year is close, and the birth location is the same as the naturalization record.
This Luigi was also a mason. He was sailing from Naples, leaving his father Michele Ruggiano in Accadia :-)
He was heading to West Virginia, to friend Sebastiano Maniglio(?)

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Luigi Ruggiani
Name: Luigi Ruggiani
Arrival Date: 3 Mar 1910
Birth Date: abt 1888
Birth Location: Avellino
Birth Location Other: accadia
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Berlin

Line 20
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

Here is the link to the microfilmed records for Accadia (1809-1905) which can be rented and viewed at your nearest LDS Family History Center
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library

And for Monteleone di Puglia (1809-1905)
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library

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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 05 Jul 2014, 17:23

Hi, T-

Yes, that Certificate of arrival record for Carmela Visconti definitely seems a hit. I hadn't come across such a record before, so that's interesting for me to see. I'll have to ask if there's possibly a "Lamanna" relation, but it's doubtful that I'll be able to reconcile that. I suppose I should stay on track and not go off on any such tangents (yet). In making an "educated" guess (your education here being far, far stronger than mine), would you think that the two Viscontis are/were somehow related?

The Luigi Ruggiano angle looks like a solid clue, but if this is, in fact, evidence of "our" Luigi's American passage, it nonetheless puzzles me as to why the information provided on his Naturalization record would be so different. Also, I realize that the slight name variation (Ruggiani vs. Ruggiano) isn't something that should necessarily deter here, but what are your thoughts there?

Finally, forgive me for being so naive as to some of the historical detection techniques, but as to the LDS Family History Center, one must physically go there, correct, i.e., you don't search online? I haven't ventured outside the "comfort" of my own home during any of my genealogy research, so I suppose I need to "bust out!" a bit! Interestingly, I just discovered that there seemingly is a center practically in my backyard! (in town)

Thank you (again) for you great assistance...
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby adelfio » 05 Jul 2014, 17:26

Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 05 Jul 2014, 17:55

Thanks for that, Marty. Using superlatives in describing the people at IG dot com never gets old, or over-stated, because all of you never cease to amaze!!! :D
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby Tessa78 » 05 Jul 2014, 17:59

mjclayton1 wrote:Hi, T-

Yes, that Certificate of arrival record for Carmela Visconti definitely seems a hit. I hadn't come across such a record before, so that's interesting for me to see. I'll have to ask if there's possibly a "Lamanna" relation, but it's doubtful that I'll be able to reconcile that. I suppose I should stay on track and not go off on any such tangents (yet). In making an "educated" guess (your education here being far, far stronger than mine), would you think that the two Viscontis are/were somehow related?

Thank you (again) for you great assistance...


Found the ship manifest for the arrival Carmela listed on her naturalization record.
Her destination is Little Falls, NY. She indicates that she is leaving No-one in Monteleone.
It should be noted that the passengers on the two lines below her have the surname Lamanna.
They are also from Monteleone, but their destination is Tuckahoe, NY

Carmela is on line 12
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 0192&show=\\192.168.100.11\images\T715-1691\T715-16910092.TIF&origFN=\\192.168.100.11\IMAGES\T715-1691\T715-16910093.TIF
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 05 Jul 2014, 19:39

Thanks, T. I do have that record, but hadn't made the Lamanna connection (until now). I realize that I'm asking you to speculate (and would take any such opinion as such), but curious as to what you think of an entry of an emigrant leaving "no one" behind in their (former) homeland. Accurate? Could she really be the "last" of the Visconti's from Monteleone to emigrate to the U.S.? And am I correctly interpreting that Carmela was going to America to see her "Sister Cristina"? In that contact entry (above Cristina's name), I see "South ________?"

As to Line 14, I have a hard time reading the cursive writing of the day. Is the relative/contact person's name in Tuckahoe, NY "______ Pietro Norra?

I think there may just be some "Lamanna" connection going on here, as wouldn't it be unusual that the "1906" Carmela Visconti (line 22 of 26 Sep 1906 SS Germania manifest linked below) who emigrated also was going to see Clemente Lamanna... and then five (5) years later, in 1911, a second Carmela Visconti just so happens to be listed on the manifest with Lamanna? Seems far too much a coincidence, but...

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0022

I'm definitely going to have to ask some more questions from my friend about the details his mother recalls about her mother's Italian family heritage.

Many thanks.

Mark
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby Tessa78 » 05 Jul 2014, 19:58

mjclayton1 wrote:Thanks, T. I do have that record, but hadn't made the Lamanna connection (until now). I realize that I'm asking you to speculate (and would take any such opinion as such), but curious as to what you think of an entry of an emigrant leaving "no one" behind in their (former) homeland. Accurate? Could she really be the "last" of the Visconti's from Monteleone to emigrate to the U.S.? And am I correctly interpreting that Carmela was going to America to see her "Sister Cristina"? In that contact entry (above Cristina's name), I see "South ________?"
The address is BELOW the name. Look at each entry from the top line down and you will see it.
It is hard to know if they actually left No one behind.
Carmela’s destination looks like “Sister Cristina at 21 German St.”

Line 13’s destination appears to be “brother Pietro at 14 Brenchridge(?)St.”
Line 14’s destination appears to be “Uncle Pietro Morra at 252 E. 148th St.”

Some more food for thought :D
Line 15 is Leonardo Morra, age 16, also from Monteleone, and also going to Little Falls, NY -


As to Line 14, I have a hard time reading the cursive writing of the day. Is the relative/contact person's name in Tuckahoe, NY "______ Pietro Norra? Morra - see above notation.

I think there may just be some "Lamanna" connection going on here, as wouldn't it be unusual that the "1906" Carmela Visconti (line 22 of 26 Sep 1906 SS Germania manifest linked below) who emigrated also was going to see Clemente Lamanna... and then five (5) years later, in 1911, a second Carmela Visconti just so happens to be listed on the manifest with Lamanna? Seems far too much a coincidence, but... Not so far-fetched :-)

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0022

I'm definitely going to have to ask some more questions from my friend about the details his mother recalls about her mother's Italian family heritage.

Many thanks.

Mark


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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 05 Jul 2014, 20:16

Wow. Thanks for that. Seems like you're uncovering more and more clues every minute. A lot for me to digest, for sure...

Not to sound too obtuse, but another "revelation" you've made here is regarding the above/below comment(s). I'm quite surprised at learning this. It seems like the demarcation between, for example, entries for Lines 12 and 13 would be the "heavy" line separating the rows. You're saying that the contact person for a given entry is (just) "above" the heavy line (say, Line 12 here: Carmela Visconti) and the address for said contact is (just) "below" the same heavy line?

My understanding (uh... I use that term very loosely) would've been that Roccantonio Lamanna would've been going to the 21 German Street address. Yikes...
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby Tessa78 » 06 Jul 2014, 04:14

mjclayton1 wrote:Wow. Thanks for that. Seems like you're uncovering more and more clues every minute. A lot for me to digest, for sure...

Not to sound too obtuse, but another "revelation" you've made here is regarding the above/below comment(s). I'm quite surprised at learning this. It seems like the demarcation between, for example, entries for Lines 12 and 13 would be the "heavy" line separating the rows. You're saying that the contact person for a given entry is (just) "above" the heavy line (say, Line 12 here: Carmela Visconti) and the address for said contact is (just) "below" the same heavy line?

My understanding (uh... I use that term very loosely) would've been that Roccantonio Lamanna would've been going to the 21 German Street address. Yikes...


I am not saying that is the way it is always done. You just need to look very closely at the particular manifest that you are researching. Sometimes it is as you say... and at other times it is written as found on this page of THIS manifest. Always look at the first and following entries to be sure you are reading the information correctly. :D

FYI... The Carmela Visconti (age 23) on the 1906 arrival manifest was going to her husband Clemente Lamanna, in Little Falls, NY. She was traveling with her daughter, Giuseppa Lamanna, age 1
???

Another bit of mystery? ... Here is the arrival manifest of Clemente Lamanna, from Monteleone in 1905. His destination is to his "father-in-law Rocco Visconti in Philadelphia"
He indicates that his father paid for his passage.
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

AND here is the Lamanna Family in 1910 in Little Falls, NY (You will need to research this to see whether this is your Carmela Visconti)

household of Carmelo Lamanno (Clemente?)
United States Census, 1910
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Little Falls Ward 4, Herkimer, New York, United States
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Carmelo Lamanno Head M 33 Italy
Carmela Lamanno Wife F 25 Italy
Giuseppa Lamanno Daughter F 5 Italy (the daughter on the 1906 manifest with Carmela)
Rocco Lamanno Son M 2 New York
Mike Lamanno Son M 0 New York
Rocco Visconti Brother-in-law M 17 Italy
Mike Visconti Father-in-law M 54 Italy
Matteo Morra Boarder M 28 Italy

Another record to "file away" until it makes a connection :-)

Possible marriage of "Cristina" - Maria Cristino Visconti
In Herkimer, NY in 1908


Maria Cristino Visconti
New York, Marriages, 1686-1980
Name: Guiseppe Lamanno
Birth Date: 1886
Age: 22
Spouse's Name: Maria Cristino Visconti
Spouse's Birth Date: 1886
Spouse's Age: 22
Event Date: 26 Apr 1908
Event Place: Herkimer, New York
Father's Name: Luigi Lamanno
Mother's Name: Angela Morra
Spouse's Father's Name: Rosario Visconti (possibly the "Rocco" on the manifest?)
Spouse's Mother's Name: Luiga Morra

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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby mjclayton1 » 06 Jul 2014, 06:35

OMG, T - my cup runneth over here! Regardless as to how this all shakes out, thank you very much for going the extra mile. Incredible stuff, really, but I do need some time to try and sort thru all of this. BTW, your commentary on considering the first entry is quite logical, yet I didn't even consider it (I think that darn cursive sends me into a real tizzy).

Looks like I have my work cut out for me...
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Re: Back with a few more questions...

Postby Tessa78 » 06 Jul 2014, 17:45

mjclayton1 wrote:OMG, T - my cup runneth over here! Regardless as to how this all shakes out, thank you very much for going the extra mile. Incredible stuff, really, but I do need some time to try and sort thru all of this. BTW, your commentary on considering the first entry is quite logical, yet I didn't even consider it (I think that darn cursive sends me into a real tizzy).

Looks like I have my work cut out for me...


Enjoy the journey! :-)

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