Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfather

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Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfather

Postby quadcem » 04 Jul 2014, 23:52

I would be eternally grateful if anyone here can help me find some information on my great great grandfather. After extensive searching, I still can't find his exact city of birth. I'm also not 100% certain about his birth date. Here's what I have so far:

Name: Carmine De Monico
Birthplace: Italy -- possibly Sicily according to family legends
Residence: Brooklyn, Kings, NY
Came to the US around 1905
Wife: Beatrice (she died between WWI and 1930 -- he is widowed on a 1930 census)
Children: John, Cosmo (born 1911), Grace
Birth date: 12 May 1881 (I know it is around 1880 - 1882)
Death: After 1940 (he shows up on a 1940 census with his son John)

I don't know if the birth date is correct, because it is based off of a WWII registration that I found. The name on the registration is Carmine Demonaco (not De Monico) -- Image. The place of birth says Petragginia, Italy (which doesn't exist as far as I know).

I also found a WWI registration card to Carmine De Monico -- Image. Unfortunately it is poor quality and very hard to read what most of it says. The date of birth appears to be 1882 though (contradicting the WWII registration document).

Does anyone have any ideas to get me in the right direction? My goal is to order his birth certificate from Italy, since I might be able to get Italian citizenship through him (Mother -> Grandmother -> Great Grandfather -> Great Great Grandfather).

Thank you!

edit: I also found a 1905 immigration document that might be related to him. It says on there that he was already in the US before (in 1900-1904?) ... so this 1904 immigration document might also be related (but again, that one says Demonaco).
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby jkingb » 05 Jul 2014, 04:00

It looks like the town of origin is "Pietrelcina" in the province of Benevento in southern Italy. The name is misspelled on the WWII registration card, but clear on the 1904 immigration list (even though the "e" looks a bit like an "a" - may be misspelled there too, or just a funny "e" - I'm assuming I found the same record on Ancestry.com that you referred to). I was hoping to find LDS microfilms from the area, but it looks like none are available. So you may have to write to the commune to request Carmine's birth record. Someone on here can help you find the address. A form letter generator can be found here:

http://www.circolocalabrese.org/genealo ... -index.asp

Otherwise, there is an online company (Italian) that can obtain the record for you for a fee. I have used them in the past. I'll provide you with the link if you are interested.
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby suanj » 05 Jul 2014, 06:26

jkingb wrote:It looks like the town of origin is "Pietrelcina" in the province of Benevento in southern Italy. The name is misspelled on the WWII registration card, but clear on the 1904 immigration list (even though the "e" looks a bit like an "a" - may be misspelled there too, or just a funny "e" - I'm assuming I found the same record on Ancestry.com that you referred to). I was hoping to find LDS microfilms from the area, but it looks like none are available. So you may have to write to the commune to request Carmine's birth record. Someone on here can help you find the address. A form letter generator can be found here:

http://www.circolocalabrese.org/genealo ... -index.asp

Otherwise, there is an online company (Italian) that can obtain the record for you for a fee. I have used them in the past. I'll provide you with the link if you are interested.

I agree abt Pietrelcina birthplace;
the right surname spelling is DE MONACO

best regards,
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jul 2014, 12:42

quadcem wrote:I also found a WWI registration card to Carmine De Monico --

Unfortunately it is poor quality and very hard to read what most of it says. The date of birth appears to be 1882 though (contradicting the WWII registration document).


The National Archives has some 24,000,000 original WWI draft registration cards in pristine condition. For a fee of just $7.00, they will locate any card and provide a near-perfect photocopy reproduction.

Go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/ If you don't already have a login, click New User on the right. After registering or logging in, click Order Reproductions and then click WWI Draft Registration Cards on the next page.

Additional info at http://www.archives.gov/research/milita ... istration/
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jul 2014, 13:01

Possible passenger manifest for Carmine De Monaco:


New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Carmine De Monaco
Name: Carmine De Monaco
Arrival Date: 30 Apr 1904
Birth Date: abt 1883
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Napoli
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Citta Di Genova

He is the very last entry on the sheet:

Image
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby jkingb » 05 Jul 2014, 20:21

The manifest that johnnyonthespot attached above is the very document I was looking at on Ancestry.com. Hopefully, that's the "1904 immigration document" OP was referring to.
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby quadcem » 06 Jul 2014, 01:24

It looks like my messages from yesterday aren't showing up for some reason :/ Well ... thank you again for all the help and insight!

I've been looking through more archives and think you guys might be right about his birth city being Pietrelcina. I think I might have found his wife's (Beatrice) Passenger List document:

NY Passenger List - 1907
Name: Beatrice B Andrea
Arrival Date: 22 May 1907
Birth Date: abt 1881
Birth Location Other: pietralenia
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Napoli
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Europa

So it looks like the woman who became his wife (in 1909) was also from Pietrelcina ... maybe they knew each other already before they came to the US and got married?

With regard to the "correct" spelling of his last name (De Monaco) ... if I manage to find his birth certificate and it shows De Monaco, will this be a problem for the citizenship application? His marriage certificate and most other documents say De Monico (and his descendants all use De Monico).

Also, do you have any advice on how to locate his death certificate? All I know is that he died after 1940 (since he shows up on a 1940 census) and possibly after 1942 (if that is his WWII draft document).
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby quadcem » 06 Jul 2014, 19:26

Additionally, I found this thread: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... alogy/9630

It requests the address for the "Ufficio dello Stato Civile of the Comune Pietrelcina".

The response is "Corso Padre Pio, 33 - 82020 Pietrelcina - ITALY", which is Pietrelcina City Hall (http://en.comuni-italiani.it/062/052/). Is this the correct place to send the letter, or should I use the generic one included here by the form generator (http://www.circolocalabrese.org/genealo ... -index.asp)?

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Pietrelcina
82020 PIETRELCINA BN
ITALY
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby adelfio » 06 Jul 2014, 22:40

quadcem wrote:Additionally, I found this thread: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... alogy/9630

It requests the address for the "Ufficio dello Stato Civile of the Comune Pietrelcina".

The response is "Corso Padre Pio, 33 - 82020 Pietrelcina - ITALY", which is Pietrelcina City Hall (http://en.comuni-italiani.it/062/052/). Is this the correct place to send the letter, or should I use the generic one included here by the form generator (http://www.circolocalabrese.org/genealo ... -index.asp)?

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Pietrelcina
82020 PIETRELCINA BN
ITALY


Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Pietrelcina
Corso Padre Pio, 33
82020 Pietrelcina (BN)
Italy
email:info@comune.pietrelcina.bn.it

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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby quadcem » 07 Jul 2014, 00:21

Great! Thank you :D Would it be inappropriate to send the letter via email to info@comune.pietrelcina.bn.it instead of via snail mail?
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Re: Reached a dead-end finding info on great great grandfath

Postby carubia » 07 Jul 2014, 09:21

quadcem wrote:With regard to the "correct" spelling of his last name (De Monaco) ... if I manage to find his birth certificate and it shows De Monaco, will this be a problem for the citizenship application? His marriage certificate and most other documents say De Monico (and his descendants all use De Monico).
It is likely to be a problem but it depends on the consulate at which you apply. Do you have any document, such as a petition for naturalization or his death cert, that has both spellings on it? If not, you should try to add an aka to his death cert and get a letter from the comune stating that there is no one who was born in the comune on his date of birth with the name De Monico. That may be enough to satisfy the consulate, or they may tell you to get a court order declaring that he went by both names.
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