Translation assistance

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mjclayton1
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Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 20 Jul 2014, 20:42

Was hoping someone could help translate the following record (No. 47)

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... 4775-00017

This is what I see (um... I use that phrase quite loosely):

Date of Record: 17 Apr 1866
Town of Saponara di Grumento, Province of Potenza
Birth Name: Maria Favale
Appeared: Antonio Favale, son of Pasquale Favale
Born: the current month of April at 7 o'clock
By wife: Seneranda Bufunno (sp.?)... daughter of Vicente Domenico?
Declared by Antonio Alberti, son of Antonio, age 30, profession tailor and Pasquale Alberti son of Giuseppe, age 40, owner-proprietor ??

I realize that I'm probably all over the map here, so thanks to any and all in advance for "unscrambling" all of this for me...

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Tessa78
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Re: Translation assistance

Postby Tessa78 » 20 Jul 2014, 22:14

ACtually, I think you did really well! :-D

Date of Record: 17 Apr 1866 at the town office at 8 AM
Town of Saponara di Grumento, Province of Potenza
Birth Name: Maria Favale
Appeared: Antonio Favale, son of deceased Pasquale Favale, age 36, peasant farmer residing here at Strada Peruzzo(?) no number,
Born: on the 16th of the current month of April at 7 o'clock PM
By wife: Veneranda Bafunno, daughter of living Domenico
Witnesses presented by the declarant were by Antonio Alberti, son of deceased Antonio, age 30, profession tailor and Pasquale Alberti son of living Giuseppe, age 40, landowner

T.

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 20 Jul 2014, 23:28

Thanks, T (oh, and thanks for the nice compliment, too)... :D

I had forgotten from the Trafford Cole book that the "fu" reference means deceased. Does "innumera" mean no number? That inconsequential question aside, I have a few more questions for you (they're endless, aren't they?):

1. This may seem obvious (er... to you), but can I assume that Antonio Favale (son of decd. Pasquale) is one and the same as Antonio Alberti (Favale) referenced later in the record? This would imply that "Alberti" is Antonio (Favale's) middle name. Or is Antonio Alberti likely a different person (from Maria's father) altogether? Meaning his last name is Alberti. Just not sure here...

2. The birth record for Antonio Rago and Maria Rago (Favale's) son, (Giorgio) Giuseppe Rago, is below (Numero 17):

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... turnRecord

I'm pretty confident that this is a "hit", as the DOB (25 Feb 1898) in the birth record matches up with a certified Naturalization Record that I've recently obtained from NARA (finally!). However, I don't see where the name "Giorgio" name is referenced. Is this possibly referenced elsewhere in the birth record? I noticed that the last four (4) pages of the Atti di Nascita contains additional information, but none of it appears to tie to record No. 17. Can you tell me what this additional information is? I haven't sifted thru all of it...

3. I found a record for a "Maria Favale" coming to the U.S. in 1902. Aged 36, which reconciles her birth date of 1866 (at least in term of years). Looks like she traveled with a 9-year old daughter named Elvira.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... z0q257caid

Additionally, an Antonio Rago (from Saponara) arrived in 1901 as follows:

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... z0q257caid

Destination San Francisco and, apparently, previously traveled to America in 1892. If they were still married (which Maria's Ellis Island travel record indicates), what's the likelihood that Maria traveled under the Favale name instead of the Rago name? Or do you think I'm barking up the wrong "tree" here? I'm having much more difficulty finding a marriage record than the birth record(s)...

Thanks again for your excellent assistance...

Mark

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Tessa78
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Re: Translation assistance

Postby Tessa78 » 21 Jul 2014, 02:40

Quick response to question #1.
Antonio Alberti is a witness, not the father.
I believe I confused you by not removing the "by" in your original translation.
Sorry.

Question #2
2. The birth record for Antonio Rago and Maria Rago (Favale's) son, (Giorgio) Giuseppe Rago, is below (Numero 17):

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... turnRecord

I'm pretty confident that this is a "hit", as the DOB (25 Feb 1898) in the birth record matches up with a certified Naturalization Record that I've recently obtained from NARA (finally!). However, I don't see where the name "Giorgio" name is referenced. Is this possibly referenced elsewhere in the birth record? No, it is not referenced in the birth record. It would appear that "Giorgio" may be a name that he liked and decided to use. I noticed that the last four (4) pages of the Atti di Nascita contains additional information, but none of it appears to tie to record No. 17. Can you tell me what this additional information is? I haven't sifted thru all of it... The last 4 pages are the Parte II of the Book of Birth Acts. It usually contains births that may have been recorded later and could not be put in the chronological record, births of abandoned children, and recognition of earlier births where a parent "recognizes" the child as their own. There is nothing in this section that refers to Giuseppe Rago.


T.

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 21 Jul 2014, 03:09

No worries, T. The confusion is all mine... :?

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby Tessa78 » 21 Jul 2014, 03:17

Just added #2 above
:-)

AND... about #3

Italian women keep their surname and so Maria would have traveled under FAVALE. This would have been common. I don not see on the manifest where she traveled in 1892, but you might look for the 1892 manifest as well, under FAVALE.

As for the Antonio Rago manifest... the link you provided is the same as the Maria Favale manifest.

T.

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 21 Jul 2014, 03:52

Sorry about that, T. See how confused I am? Antonio Rago is on Line 232...

http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord


I wonder if I'm wildly speculating here. If Giorgio Giuseppe Rago was born in 1898, why would Antonio (father) or Maria Favale (mother) travel to America without Giorgio, i.e., a dozen-plus years before he came to America? I know for a fact that he arrived in 1914. This is corroborated by multiple sources:

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/70379940 ... 4403567615

and

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... z0q257caid

Moreover, I haven't even linked you a photo/reproduction of the NARA certification I recently obtained, but trust me when I say that he came to America in 1914. Would it be unusual for parents to leave him behind in Italy, i.e., without a mother to care for him? Maybe because it's difficult to travel at such a young age? I don't know. It's starting to feel like maybe this Maria Favale is just not a hit...

[p.s. thanks for the additional insight re: an Italian woman keeping her maiden name while traveling...]

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby Tessa78 » 21 Jul 2014, 15:20

Let me start with your questions about Antonio Rago above :-)

You stated he arrived in 1901, destination San Francisco, and posted a link
The link was for Antonio Rago arriving in 1893, destination California. Age 25.

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Antonio Rago
Name: Antonio Rago
Arrival Date: 13 May 1893
Birth Date: abt 1868
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Italian
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Cheribon

I also located the 1901 arrival you mentioned :-)
On this manifest he was going to brother Rago (no first name that I can see) in NEW YORK.
He states that he has traveled TWICE before in 1893 and 1895 to US. His age is 33.
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

I do not see a reference on Maria Favale's manifest that she arrived in 1892... Do you have this notation? Can you post it? I do not think she traveleld before the manifest you posted above with Elvira.
It was common for men to travel back and forth from Italy to US for work. They would earn wages, then return to Italy. It is possible that Antonio returned to Italy after his 1901 trip. When he returned to US (before Maria and Elvira) he MAY have taken his son with him. That is not to say your 1914 arrival for Giorgio Giuseppe is incorrect. On the contrary, the 1914 arrival would have been the one referenced in his naturalization papers since this was his latest arrival (with intention to remain in US).
Since there are no records for trips BACK to Italy, we must continue to look for additional arrivals. MAYBE you can find Giorgio Giuseppe on an earlier one with his father, an uncle, etc. :-)

BTW - the family tree link you provided is not viewable. :(

T.

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 21 Jul 2014, 16:21

Thanks, T. I have so many tabs open on Chrome that I seem to copy the wrong link now and again. As to Maria Favale arriving in 1892, I only found the previously noted 1902 manifest.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... z0q257caid

There are other Maria Favale's, but none appear to be a "match" in terms of her 1866 birthdate. I found a second "detained passenger" record from the June 24, 1902 S.S. Washington ship manifest:

http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

However, it shows the husband as "Rafaelle" at 77 Avenue G in California. This circles back to a previous post re: Giuseppe Rago (No. 17)

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... turnRecord

A second Rago - Vincenzo Rago - appears on Record No. 62. DOB 1 Sep 1898:

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... 4803-00022

Son of Rafaelle Rago and Maria Galasea (sp.?) Sure seems like Giuseppe Rago and Vincenzo Rago are from two different parents. However, I think I've been confused by Giuseppe's Ellis Island Manifest (see Line 23 of below). Although it references his father, Antonio ("nearest relative in country whence alien came"), it also states that he's visiting his "brother" Vincenzo.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/8745/MA ... turnRecord

and the next page:

http://interactive.ancestry.com/8745/MA ... 3_223-0358

Do you see how this is throwing me off? Antonio was in Italy, not America? You say that they often traveled back and forth, so that could possibly explain the Antonio reference. I hope I explained this clearly, as sometimes I'm not sure I even understand it! And the "two" Maria's are now causing me heartache, too!

Thanks.

Mark

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby Tessa78 » 21 Jul 2014, 21:34

Hello carmen :-)
You wrote:
I found a second "detained passenger" record from the June 24, 1902 S.S. Washington ship manifest:

http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

However, it shows the husband as "Rafaelle" at 77 Avenue G in California. This circles back to a previous post re: Giuseppe Rago (No. 17)

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1886/31 ... turnRecord


Looking at the detained passenger list, I do not believe that this is "Rafaelle in California", but rather husband, Raffaele Califra, 77 Avenue C in NEW YORK.
I think this may not be YOUR Maria Favale...

In the birth record you posted for VINCENZO RAGO... I think this is not the same family.
The father's name is Rafaello Rago, BUT the mother is Maria FALASCA :-(
I do not believe this is the brother of your Giuseppe Rago.

Taking a look at the manifest you posted for Giuseppe Rago, age 17, leaving father Antonio in Saponara, going to brother Vincenzo in California... Are you certain this is your Giuseppe RAgo?

T.

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Re: Translation assistance

Postby mjclayton1 » 22 Jul 2014, 06:16

T- As to your last question, about as certain as it gets. Exact DOB match on 1898 Birth Record and also U.S. Naturalization record. Reference to "Saponave" in South Italy (likely, a typo) on Naturalization record. Family members and DOB's all reconcile there, too. Arrived in U.S. in Boston on 20 Jul 1914 on S.S. Palermo, per Naturalization record. Reconciles with Boston ship manifest...

As to your first two comments, I still can't believe I don't know how to (more accurately) read those darn manifests... :?


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