Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

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Nsondy
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Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 28 Jul 2014, 07:08

My grandfather, Joseph Pape, was born in New York City to Raffaele and Colomba Pepe on 7 Oct 1894. His family lived at 248 Mulberry Street. I have been able to trace information about him up to and including his 1942 draft registration. I would like to find out when and where he died. Are there other search options open to me other than ancestry.com that might help?

Nancy :)

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby adelfio » 28 Jul 2014, 15:22

What was his wifes name?

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby suanj » 28 Jul 2014, 15:52

Hi Marty.. if the below records are abt right Joseph Pape

Joseph James Pape
United States World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: Joseph James Pape
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1917-1918
Event Place: New York City no 95, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Nationality: United States
Birth Date: 07 Oct 1894

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1968530


Joseph James Pape
United States World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name: Joseph James Pape
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1942
Event Place: Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 07 Oct 1893
Affiliate ARC Identifier: 2555973
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1861144
next of kin: miss Regina Pape

however no helpful for to know the wife name..
regards,
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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Biff83 » 28 Jul 2014, 17:27

Possible marriage record:

Groom Pape Joseph J Jul 21 1918 21260 (1918) Manhattan 1643070 Bride: Halupka, Mamie

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 28 Jul 2014, 19:23

Thank you everyone for your assistance!

Joseph James PAPE, born 7 Oct 1894 and MIGHT HAVE been married to my grandmother, Antoinette TRILONE. That is the story, anyway. However, I have never found a marriage certificate or a divorce from this alleged marriage. The date of the marriage might have been 10 Mar 1921, but considering the times and the situation my grandmother found herself in, is just as likely that this is a fabricated date.

I found Joe Pape's draft registrations for WWI and WWII, and noted Regina Pape as his contact person for the 1942 document. Regina was the oldest daughter of his brother, Alfred Pape, and Alfred also identifies Regina as his contact person on his 1942 draft registration.

On a personal note, the family never spoke of Joe Pape; my grandmother remarried and the family lost all contact with him after 1946 or so. Joe was a career criminal, born and raised at 248 Mulberry Street in the heart of Little Italy. The only thing my grandmother would say of him was that he had gone to prison for shooting a police officer. Years later, I have found the newspaper items about the shooting and have found him on a 1930 census in the NJ State Prison at Trenton where he served 8 years with parole in 7 Jul 1931.

I contacted the archives in NJ and they sent me a copy of his prison record, wherein I discovered that he had also served time in Sing Sing (1912), Blackwell's Island (sentenced to 8 months, 23 days, 1920-21), Blackwell's Island again ( one year sentence, 1922-23), and he was incarcerated on 14 Jun 1932 at NYC penitentiary for drug possession. According to the draft registration from 1942, he was at that time homeless and jobless. My mother saw him in 1946 after not having seen him since 1929, and she never saw or heard of him again. My guess is that, in addition to these adult incarcerations, he likely spent time in the House of Refuge in NYC; I am not sure if I am able to access those records remotely, as I live in Chicago.

There is also a mystery of a child that Joe Pape and my grandmother had prior to the birth of my mother. My mother was always considered the firstborn, and then as my grandmother neared death, she told my mother that there was a child born before my mother, and that this child, "Virginia," had died at about one year of age. My mother was born in Jan 1922, when my grandmother was 16 years old. If there were a child born before my mother who had time to grow to one year old, she had to have had this child at the age of 14. I ordered my mother's birth certificate, which my grandmother had kept hidden away for all those years, and discovered that she had told my mother the truth - her birth certificate would show that my mother was the second child born to this woman. My mom was born at the City Hospital on Welfare Island, and my grandmother suggested that this was why she had my mom's younger sister, Rose, in New Jersey - so that the birth certificate would not show that Rose was #2 of 3....I have never found Rose's birth certificate either, so I can't verify that. Rose was never able to find her own birth certificate when she needed it as an elderly woman, so I don't know if one survives.

Note that I have found numerous spellings for my grandmother's name - her birth certificate says Antonetta Trilone, my mother's birth certificate calls her "Lettie" Trilone, and many of the early censuses identify her as "Nettie" Trilone (her nickname all of her life). I have also found the Trilone last name spelled TRIOLONE, which is the name my great-grandfather Luigi TRIOLONE brought to America.

Thank you for any help you can provide me with this. I have been trying to flesh out the story for years, and while I've found a lot of good information, there are still key pieces of the story that are missing. I appreciate your interest and your patience with my story-telling!

Nancy

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby adelfio » 28 Jul 2014, 20:47

Heres Joe Pape in Leavenworth prison
Name: Joseph Pape
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1940
Event Place: Kickapoo Township, Leavenworth, Kansas, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Marital Status: Married
Race (Original): White
Race: White
Birthplace: New York
Birth Year (Estimated): 1894
Last Place of Residence: New York
PG LINK TO RECORD
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=2000219

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby suanj » 28 Jul 2014, 21:45

There is also a mystery of a child that Joe Pape and my grandmother had prior to the birth of my mother. My mother was always considered the firstborn, and then as my grandmother neared death, she told my mother that there was a child born before my mother, and that this child, "Virginia," had died at about one year of age. My mother was born in Jan 1922, when my grandmother was 16 years old. If there were a child born before my mother who had time to grow to one year old, she had to have had this child at the age of 14. I ordered my mother's birth certificate, which my grandmother had kept hidden away for all those years, and discovered that she had told my mother the truth - her birth certificate would show that my mother was the second child born to this woman. My mom was born at the City Hospital on Welfare Island, and my grandmother suggested that this was why she had my mom's younger sister, Rose, in New Jersey - so that the birth certificate would not show that Rose was #2 of 3....I have never found Rose's birth certificate either, so I can't verify that. Rose was never able to find her own birth certificate when she needed it as an elderly woman, so I don't know if one survives


hi,
in 1920 census Nettie was single...
Nettie Trilone in household of Louis Trilone
United States Census, 1920
Name: Nettie Trilone
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1920
Event Place: Manhattan Assembly District 20, New York, New York, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 16
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated): 1904
Birthplace: New York
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Louis Trilone Head M 41 Italy
Mary Trilone Wife F 30 Italy
Nettie Trilone Daughter F 16 New York
William Trilone Son M 11 New York
Nicholas Trilone Son M 9 New York
Rosie Trilone Daughter F 8 New York
Fannie Trilone Daughter F 5 New York
Peter Trilone Son M 4 New York
Lizzie Trilone Daughter F 3 New York
Lena Trilone Daughter F 0 New York

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 28 Jul 2014, 21:48

WOW, Marty - Leavenworth. I would not be at all surprised. I'm going to have to see if I can find prison records.

Nancy :)

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 28 Jul 2014, 21:53

Hi suanj - I'm still figuring out how to use this forum! Thank you for looking - I have found much information on my grandmother - including that census you found. I think this is one of those family secrets that no one talked about because whatever happened with my grandmother, her family did not approve. Joseph Pape was a criminal and was 10 years older than she was. I have tried searching for Virginia Pape born around 1920+/- 2 years, and have found nothing. My mother's birth record is not online, either - I had to order it from NY Vital Records and show proof of my kinship including my driver's license and her death certificate, AND they wanted the exact date of birth. I had that information about my mom, but that information about the baby Virginia likely died with my grandmother.

Thank you so much for checking on this for me.

Nancy :)

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 05 Aug 2014, 17:56

Hi Marty -
I contacted the Leavenworth archivist, and he was able to provide me with Joseph Pape's criminal record. It WAS my grandfather that you found, and this find opened a whole world of new information to me including dates, charges, and sentences for about 30 years worth of criminal activities. I can't thank you enough for all your help and I appreciate you having putting your expertise to work on my family tree.

Nancy :)

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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby adelfio » 05 Aug 2014, 18:21

Glad to help there are a lot of good researchers on IG website Nancy sounds like Joe was quite the character

Marty
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Re: Looking for death date, Joseph Pape

Postby Nsondy » 05 Aug 2014, 19:52

He was, Marty - he has his own FBI dossier. NOW my work begins! I have about 30 incarcerations to research - this should keep me busy for the next 10 years!

Nancy


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