1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

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1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 11 Aug 2014, 05:18

Hello,

Can someone please translate the 1870 death record (#8) accessible from the link below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,53743001

It is for Vincenzo Grieco--I am looking for his age, parents, and wife if listed.

Thanks in advance

Best

Kevin

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby Marcello_DAleo » 11 Aug 2014, 10:46

Ruvo del Monte, 12 Feb 1870. Act of death of Nicola Grandone, aged 8 months, born and resident in Ruvo del Monte, son of Antonio (countryman) and Maria Giovanna Blasucci (countrywoman); he died in Ruvo del Monte at 9 pm of 11 Feb 1870, in the home located in "strada sopra San Rocco"
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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 11 Aug 2014, 15:02

Thanks Marcello--can you help with the record below the one you translated? Vincenzo starts at the bottom of the page and carries over to the next. Thanks again for all your help!

Kevin

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby Tessa78 » 11 Aug 2014, 15:47

KevinO wrote:Thanks Marcello--can you help with the record below the one you translated? Vincenzo starts at the bottom of the page and carries over to the next. Thanks again for all your help!

Kevin


Here is the record you referenced, Kevin :-)

#8
Dated 11 February 1870
Declarants: Michele Blasucci, 40; and Vincenzo di Vincenza, 50, peasant farmers.
Death of Vincenzo Grieco on the same day (11 Feb) at 2 PM at Strada San Carlo
Vincenzo was age 56, a shoemaker born and residing in the town, son of deceased Vito Nicola Grieco, also a shoemaker; and of deceased Maria Michela Casino, peasant farmer


T.

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 11 Aug 2014, 17:02

Thank you! Does it indicate if he was married and/or who his wife is?

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 11 Aug 2014, 21:26

KevinO wrote:Thank you! Does it indicate if he was married and/or who his wife is?


He was the husband of Mariantonia Nicastio, who looks to be still living at the time of this record.

Angela

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby erudita74 » 11 Aug 2014, 21:54

AngelaGrace56 wrote:
KevinO wrote:Thank you! Does it indicate if he was married and/or who his wife is?


He was the husband of Mariantonia Nicastio, who looks to be still living at the time of this record.

Angela



I believe Mariantonia's surname is Nicastro, a surname found in Potenza province.

Erudita

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 12 Aug 2014, 04:06

Thank you--I think this record may not be of my ancestor. I have a wedding record of Donatantonio Grieco (son of late Vincenzo Grieco and Carmina Ricciardella) and Rosaria Maria DiVincenza (daughter Antonio and Mariantonia Zaccagnino). The birth record (from 1871) that I have for Donatantonio reads son of late Vincenzo. I have looked through all of the death records for the Province between 1866 and 1871 and there was only one record I found for Vincenzo Grieco that was a potential match however the death record shows that Vincenzo was married to Mariantonia Nicastro.

In the 1870 marriage record accessible from the post links below I see the names Vincenzo and Carmina Ricciardella but there are a few words between the names that I am not sure what it says/means.
Can someone take a look at these 2 records and give their perspective if the two Vincenzo's are different?

April 1870 Marriage Certificate:

http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... logy/32125

February 1870 Death Certificate (#8):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,53743001

Thank you

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby PippoM » 12 Aug 2014, 15:11

Hi!
According to the banns for the marriage of Donatantonio and Rosaria Maria

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,54867701

Vincenzo died on Feb 23rd, 1850
Unfortunately, there are no "allegati" for marriages of year 1870.
You might take a look in the others, as sometimes there's some mistake in dates.
In the "allegati" it should be possible to find Vincenzo's death certificate (and it would probably state his parents)
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 12 Aug 2014, 16:08

This is great information--can you translate the rest of the document you provided? I have not seen this before--what information is usually contained in an allegations compared to other records?

Thanks again

Kevin

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby erudita74 » 12 Aug 2014, 16:35

KevinO wrote:This is great information--can you translate the rest of the document you provided? I have not seen this before--what information is usually contained in an allegations compared to other records?

Thanks again

Kevin



Date of marriage publication provided to you by Pippo was March 18, 1870 at 4 P.M.
The groom, Donantonio Grieco, was single (never before married), age 23, and a peasant/farmer in the town. He was the son of deceased Vincenzo Grieco and Carmina Ricciardella-peasant/farmers. The bride was Rosaria Maria di Vincenza, age 18, also a peasant/farmer who had never before been married. She was the daughter of Antonio di Vincenza and Mariantonia Zaccagnino, both peasant/farmers in the town.

A marriage publication was like a bann of marriage to insure that there were no objections or impediments to an upcoming marriage. So the date in the above record is not the actual date of the marriage.

Allegati were documents provided by the couple to be married in support of their marriage. Such documents included their acts of birth, acts of death for parents, sometimes acts of death for grandparents, also acts of death for previous spouses, as well as marriage publications. There were occasionally other kinds of documents presented such as a certificate of poverty of the spouses, a proceeding of the family council document-if parents were deceased and the spouses were underage, and possibly a statement of the groom's freedom to marry indicating that he was free from military service, was not a member of the clergy, and was not already married.

In the above marriage publication, some of the info is handwritten in the document toward the bottom, including the date of death given for the groom's father by Pippo. The other two pieces of info given are the birth dates of the groom and bride. The groom provided an extract of his act of birth which indicated that he was born on May 10, 1847. The bride provided an extract of hers which indicated that she was born on April 10, 1852. The mother of the groom provided an extract of the death act of her husband Vincenzo Grieco indicating that he died on Feb 23, 1850.

If allegati records are available for the town for the year the marriage took place, you would then get actual copies of these birth and death record extracts.

Hope this info helps, Kevin.

Erudita

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby adelfio » 12 Aug 2014, 16:38

You should read this info about Italian civil records it will help
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ ... al_Records

Video about Basic Italian Research play the whole lesson
https://familysearch.org/learningcenter ... search/246

Marty
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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby KevinO » 13 Aug 2014, 06:03

Thank you Erudita--this helps me understand the different documents that are available to offer key pieces of information.


Thank you Marty--thanks for the insight in these resources; I will definitely take a look at these.


I looked at the publication provided by PippoM and there are a couple more entries on the right hand side; both for Donatantonio Grieco and Rosaria Maria di Vincenza. Can someone help translate what these entries say (2 entries on the right side):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,54867701

Thanks again!

Kevin

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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby PippoM » 13 Aug 2014, 11:47

Publications had to be affixed in the Town Hall three times. Only the first time, spouses had to provide the documents needed.
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Re: 1870 Death Record Translation Vincenzo Grieco

Postby erudita74 » 13 Aug 2014, 13:06

KevinO wrote:Thank you Erudita--this helps me understand the different documents that are available to offer key pieces of information.


Thank you Marty--thanks for the insight in these resources; I will definitely take a look at these.


I looked at the publication provided by PippoM and there are a couple more entries on the right hand side; both for Donatantonio Grieco and Rosaria Maria di Vincenza. Can someone help translate what these entries say (2 entries on the right side):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,54867701

Thanks again!

Kevin


Kevin
Record #32 is called prima pubblicazione di matrimonio-first marriage publication-remained posted on the door of the town hall for a week; in the last paragraph of your first publication, it stated that it was posted on Sunday the 20th of the above month of March and remained affixed there until it was followed by the second publication (#33). In the last two lines of the second publication, it states that that publication was posted on Sunday the 27th of the above month of March and, on the top of the next page, it states that that same publication remained affixed to the door of the town hall for three consecutive days. When those three days were completed, the couple could then be married, although there may have been a short gap from the time the second publication expired until their actual marriage day. Church records normally referred to three banns of marriage. I should add that, just because publications were posted for a couple, does not mean that they actually married. We have seen instances where a couple posted their banns and then, for whatever reason, never married, or we later find publications for one of those individuals with someone else, and then only an actual marriage record with that second individual.

Erudita


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