Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciation?

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Thatgenealogykid
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Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciation?

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 00:16

Well, the family in question immigrated over, and on the naturalization papers it's spelled bilotta

On the 1930 census, it's spelled belotti

And on the 1940 it's spelled bilotta

So confused, could they have pronounced it like "bulati", or is it all but certain it was pronounced bilotuh?

Anizio
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Anizio » 17 Oct 2014, 00:41

Are you sure its the same people?

In the 1930s and 40s its very unlikely a family did not know how to spell their own name.

None of those names would be pronounced by Italians a Buhlati.
Bilotta would be more like Bilotuh and Belotti would be Behlotee.

You really shouldn't go off pronunciation. Stick to the most accurate records: birth, marriage and death, and use those to confirm confusing findings in other less reliable records.

If you really aren't sure which is the name, use the immigration papers to find the town they are from, and the persons age to find a record in that town with the accurate spelling.

You keep asking questions on here, but without giving us the whole story we can only help you so much.

If you really want help; list all of the names, dates, and information you have and we can be of more use.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

Thatgenealogykid
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 01:49

Well, my italian line is adopted and im too nervous to ask my family.

Thatgenealogykid
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 01:49

And it is the same people.

Anizio
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Anizio » 17 Oct 2014, 01:54

Without actual first names, dates, and locations you cannot find anything.
At most you would find something that COULD be your family, but could also be completely unrelated to you which realistically is not helpful. (I have seen people waste hours researching what they thought was their ancestor because they made an assumption, only to accidentally find the real ancestor later and realize they wasted time)

You cannot just go by the same sounding name. Even the same name a in the right year wouldn't necessarily help as there are often two people with the same first and last name born in the same place in the same year.

Get all the concrete information you can or, not to sound rude, you are wasting your time.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

carubia
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby carubia » 17 Oct 2014, 02:11

It's very common to find the same surname spelled differently in the 1930 and 1940 US census. After all, it was not the respondents who were writing the name but the census taker. Even first names are often butchered.

Thatgenealogykid
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 02:51

carubia wrote:It's very common to find the same surname spelled differently in the 1930 and 1940 US census. After all, it was not the respondents who were writing the name but the census taker. Even first names are often butchered.


But what I'm saying is, is it likely or possible that the wrong spelled surname could be a hint that a surname is pronounced correctly?

carubia
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby carubia » 17 Oct 2014, 02:57

I was just responding to Anzio's assertion that "In the 1930s and 40s its very unlikely a family did not know how to spell their own name." The fact that the name was spelled differently doesn't indicate that THEY couldn't spell their name. I wasn't commenting on the pronunciation in Italian.

On other threads, other posters have proposed many possible Italian surnames that could have been the original name. With the way spellings varied on US census records, just about any of them seems possible.

Thatgenealogykid
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 04:54

carubia wrote:I was just responding to Anzio's assertion that "In the 1930s and 40s its very unlikely a family did not know how to spell their own name." The fact that the name was spelled differently doesn't indicate that THEY couldn't spell their name. I wasn't commenting on the pronunciation in Italian.

On other threads, other posters have proposed many possible Italian surnames that could have been the original name. With the way spellings varied on US census records, just about any of them seems possible.


Did people with the surname billotti/belotti use billotta? The arrival record, and other census records were spelled bilotta. Except the 1930 record is spelled belotti. Are you saying that it morphed into being spelled bilotta except pronounced bellotti?

carubia
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby carubia » 17 Oct 2014, 05:00

No, I'm just saying that the 1930 census taker may have made a mistake. Do the given names and place of residence match up between the 1930 and 1940 census? If so, then the name was probably Bilotta or something like it (e.g., Billotta, Belotta), as per the arrival record.

Thatgenealogykid
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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby Thatgenealogykid » 17 Oct 2014, 06:43

carubia wrote:No, I'm just saying that the 1930 census taker may have made a mistake. Do the given names and place of residence match up between the 1930 and 1940 census? If so, then the name was probably Bilotta or something like it (e.g., Billotta, Belotta), as per the arrival record.


Well, do you know any websites that I can use to find my ancestors? I literally only have the phonetic of a surname and when my ancestor who's adopted was born.

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Re: Surname spelled differently? Could it hint pronounciatio

Postby carubia » 17 Oct 2014, 08:10

Are you reasonably confident that the arrival record and at least one census was for the family in question? If so, does the arrival record indicate from what town these people came? Don't these records have any first names and ages? Do the census records indicate whether the person had naturalized to become a US citizen? Have you searched on Ancestry or FamilySearch for other records for one of these people, such as WWI or WWI draft registration cards?

Generally, to find out the town in Italy in which someone was born, or at least resided, the best resources in the US would be ships' manifests, naturalization records (the petition for naturalization, in particular), alien registration forms, and draft registration cards. A death cert might have this info, too.


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