Records of Relgious?

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Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 03 Jul 2005, 02:26

Perhaps someone here might have a suggestion. So far I have been unable to locate the specific town or village in Italy my family came from. In going through some old correspondence from 1969 I was reminded that there was a priest (since died) in San Francisco who said that when he was first ordained (somewhere around 1930) he had met 2 of our uncles in Rome, who were priests. Might there be any way of checking that. Or without more specifics is that just an impossible task? :cry:
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby ricbru » 03 Jul 2005, 02:31

Hello,
almost every town in Italy there is a Semionario, where young guys decide to study and become catholic priest.
If you want to know where your ancestors come from, you should give us last name, passenger ship list, dob, dom, dod, ssdi and any other infos loike that.
bye ricbru
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 03 Jul 2005, 03:14

ricbru wrote:Hello,
almost every town in Italy there is a Semionario, where young guys decide to study and become catholic priest.
If you want to know where your ancestors come from, you should give us last name, passenger ship list, dob, dom, dod, ssdi and any other infos loike that.
bye ricbru


My great grandparents, Agostino Parente, and Maria Antonia Cirgliano, came to the US in 1885. They were supposed to have been married in New York, but there is no record of it. They came to San Francisco, and their first child was born in 1887. Agostino died at the age of 45 on November 21, 1896 in San Francisco, and Maria died at the age of 36 on July 26, 1899 also in SFO. We have no birthdates for either of them. The children were put in an orphanage. It is on their intake card at the orphanage that it is noted that the parents were married in a Catholic Church in NYC, and that they came to CA in 1885. All birth, marriage, and death records for their time period were lost in the Earthquake and Fire of 1906. Agostino had a brother Franco (Frank) who lived till the 30's but no SSN, and no one in the family knows any more information.

Trinacria ship list 1885

A. Parente 33
M.A. Cirigliano 22

It is so frustrating not to be able to find the information.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby VaDeb » 03 Jul 2005, 04:05

Wow, this seems to be a tough one. They both died so young and all recors lost in the fire after the earthquake of 1906. The manifest shows they are from the Basilicata Region.

Have you had any luck tracing the brother, Frank? Found census or passenger records for him? He maybe the key.

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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 03 Jul 2005, 07:27

VaDeb wrote:Wow, this seems to be a tough one. They both died so young and all recors lost in the fire after the earthquake of 1906. The manifest shows they are from the Basilicata Region.

Have you had any luck tracing the brother, Frank? Found census or passenger records for him? He maybe the key.

Debbie


Have not been able to find his passenger list. Earliest census I find him is in 1910 and Frank said he came in 1867, but was not naturalized. Can't find him in the 1920, and by the 1930 he was in the State hospital and whoever committed him knew nothing.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby john_dominic » 03 Jul 2005, 10:50

Missy, a few things:

A. You can probably find where they were married by Church records, although what you are saying is a great undertaking, considering how many Churches are in NYC. You could do a historical search by Italian regions, then find the Churches from those regions, and request records from every single Church in those areas.

B. Slightly better, you can go and pull up a map of the Basicilata region (below)

Image

and start hitting up every major city to see if either of them were born within a year (plus or minus) from their birth year. You can either do it personally, or get a service to do the request. It is cheaper to do it personally, but I don't know how good you are at Italian.

That region, to your luck, does not seem to be heavily populated, so narrowing down the search should be tolerable, there.

Good luck.

Let me just say that on my Non-Italian side I have the exact same situation (both parents dying at a young age and children being sent to an orphanege) and it is a mess. It seems that everything, every bit of data vanishes at that point, and is not recovered for generations, if ever. Consider yourself lucky to have the proper spellings of their surnames and at least a rough region to go with. Mind had about 9 or 10 different spellings of the names in records, and given the rarity of the possible origins, I still don't know where the hell my family is from (after a decade of research).

And, to top - This is my surname, which makes it thousands of times more irritating and frustrating.

Either way, I feel your pain.

Take care,

J
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby mfjp » 03 Jul 2005, 11:22

Looked at the surnames on the ships record provided by Missymess...

The surnames Notarfrancesco, Parenti(e), Cirigliano, Fortunato, Brienza, all can be found from Marsiconnovo, Potenza

Nice post John Dominic!!

Also found a terribly transcribed boat record of...

Name:   Donato Birraglia
Arrival Date:   15 May 1909
Age:   19 years
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1890
Gender:   Male
Ethnic Background:   Italian (South)
Port of Departure:   Naples, Italy
Ship Name:   Verona
Port of Arrival:   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Friend's Name:   going to Uncle Francesco Cirigliano's
Last Residence:   Banondo
Birthplace:   Buonaltayo, Banondo
Microfilm Roll Number:   66

Would this name sound familiar to you?

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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby ricbru » 03 Jul 2005, 13:11

Hello,
here there is the record of Agostino Parente (from Basilicata region)

Cognome
PARENTE

Nome
A.

Età
33

Sesso
M

Professione
LABORER

Istruzione
U

Luogo di origine
BASILICATA

Destinazione
NEW-YORK

Visto
Emigrante

Classe
Ponte

Porto d'imbarco
NAPLES

Nave
TRINACRIA

Data d'arrivo
3/2/1885

And this is Maria Antonia Cirigliano records from Potenza, Basilicata region

Cognome
CIRIGLIANO

Nome
M.A.

Età
22

Sesso
M

Professione
LABORER

Istruzione
U

Luogo di origine
POTENZA

Destinazione
NEW-YORK

Visto
Emigrante

Classe
Ponte

Porto d'imbarco
NAPLES

Nave
TRINACRIA

Data d'arrivo
3/2/1885

Now we know that both were coming from Basilicata region.
These are the comunes belonging to province of Potenza and Matera

http://www.basilicata.bancadati.it/b-comuni.html

and this is a web site that helps you to write a request of civil records, in italian

http://www.basilicata.bancadati.it/b-comuni.html

I hope it helps, bye ricbru
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 03 Jul 2005, 20:57

After writing I went back through my information looking for more clues.
On my great aunt's baptismal certificate are listed the godparents, Nicola CIANCIARULO, and Maria VOTTO. In checking California death records I found 4 Votto deaths in the right time period, whose mother's maiden name was Cianciarulo. I then checked Ellis Island records using Morse's One step and found that the majority of Cianciarulos and Vottos came from Marsiconuovo, and Marsicovetere so I think maybe I'm on the right track. I just didn't think I could do a search unless I had an actual birthdate or parents names.

I have been trying to discover the Italian areas of NYC around 1885, and what parishes were Italian ones to try and locate a marriage record. Would the church have sent the information back to the commune or parish church in Italy?

mfjp: Don't know of any Cirigliano relatives in the US.

I thank everyone for their help and suggestions.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby DonnaPellegrin » 04 Jul 2005, 00:39

Missy,
One way to find out the city of origin, when one only knows the province, is to write to the state archives of that province and request the conscription record (registro di leva).

All males in Italy at the age of eighteen had to report to the draft board. If your great-grandfather, Agostino Parente, came to the US when he was 33, he probably served his time in the Italian military.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 04 Jul 2005, 05:01

DonnaPellegrin wrote:Missy,
One way to find out the city of origin, when one only knows the province, is to write to the state archives of that province and request the conscription record (registro di leva).

All males in Italy at the age of eighteen had to report to the draft board. If your great-grandfather, Agostino Parente, came to the US when he was 33, he probably served his time in the Italian military.


Donna,
I'll give that a try, but another source said that it was only for men born after 1855, and he would have been born in about 1851, and his brother in about 1848.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby DonnaPellegrin » 04 Jul 2005, 07:14

Missy,
Your other source was indeed correct. Sorry, I didn't do the math.
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Re: Records of Relgious?

Postby missymess » 04 Jul 2005, 10:05

That's ok. I did wonder if he might be listed, only because it said in some areas registration started in (I think) 1865 of those 18 years of age. In other areas it said 187-something which would make him older. Like the 1855 date plus 18 years = 1873. So still might work. You never know what was written in stone and what is generally true.
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