reference to atto di morte

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mezzogiorno62
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reference to atto di morte

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Feb 2015, 20:11

other than the margin notations occasionally found on birth and marriage records,is anyone out there aware of any other possible record sources that might notate death information for an individual where none is known? nothing like this is found in military records(which wouldnt help anyway if the subject were female).i havent a clue as to a locality or date regarding the subject of my search.i checked the comune and surrounding comunes of residence,as well as a logical time frame,with no luck.like searching for a needle in a haystack literally.i need something solid to work with-not like a blind man in the dark.other than margin notations i can't think of any other sources.so thats my question:are there any other records or resources in a situation like this?

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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby Anizio » 02 Feb 2015, 20:27

The allegati (attached records) for the marriage of one of his/her children if that marriage occurred after his death would (should/may) include information regarding his death, perhaps even with a copy of a handwritten death document or a certificate depending on the year and location.

Also you should not rely too heavily on margin notations, allegati are much more useful and they are additional documents attached to the margin notations. Margin notations may or may not refer to these documents, but even if they don't the allegati documents do exist. You should try to obtain the allegati for all records you have, especially marriage records, as they often include additional information that you would not be able to locate otherwise.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Feb 2015, 20:36

thats fine anizio if i had marriage information for any of the subjects children,which i dont,or even if allegati were filmed and available in the comune in question.2 daughters were born to the subject-in 1877 and 1880-so i would assume they married between about 1892 and 1910 allowing for 1877 a 15 yr old marriage and 1880 a 30 yr old marriage.nothing.i know what allegati are.i've found them in other comunes-but not here.my subject resided in barcellona pozzo di gotto messina for a period of time.no allegati for that comune as i checked the lds films.

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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby Anizio » 02 Feb 2015, 20:53

I'll remember not to make suggestions to you ever again. You always get aggressive when you don't get the answer you want.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

mezzogiorno62
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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Feb 2015, 21:01

not being aggressive just telling you what i know and what i need.sorry if you are offended but i've been at this for 20 years.when i pose a question its only after i've done long thorough and hard research.i never ask frivolous generic questions that a beginner might ask.i'm way past that and i've never had a complaint from anyone else on this site.youre a first.not expecting miracles here.just a simple question and a simple answer.

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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby rainroro22 » 16 Mar 2015, 07:37

Also you should not rely too heavily on margin notations, allegati are much more useful and they are additional documents attached to the margin notations. Margin notations may or may not refer to these documents,....???
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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby Italysearcher » 16 Mar 2015, 09:15

If everything worked the way it should, the comune where the death took place should notify the comune of birth. Problem is wars, earthquakes etc and change in government get in the way. If the person in question just walked away, and never told anyone where he was from, how can they notify anyone? If he died outside his town, alone, how would they know who to notify, or even what his name was? If he died after 1866 (or 1870) and his birth was before the beginning of civil records where would they note it? If he went to war and died out of the country? If he was sent to a mental institution away from his town of residence? Sometimes, you just can't find a death act.
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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 16 Mar 2015, 13:14

this man is extremely elusive.his wife was my paternal grandmother's wetnurse and virtual mother(my grandmother was born in barcellona pg messina in 1883 ignoti genitori).they came to boston in 1902 to reside with the natural son of the wetnurse.she died several days later.the husband never joined her(its doubtful they ever married as non coniugale,or not married,was noted in one of their natural daughters birth record)and after carefully checking passenger records,he doesnt appear to have ever come here.so most likely he died in sicily.i checked barcellona pg deaths from 1902(he apparently survived her according to her 1902 boston death record)as far as i could and found nothing.i also checked with palermo,where he was born,and found nothing.i have his original birth record copy,but no death is noted there either.so its apparent that wherever/whenever he died nothing was sent to the civil office in palermo.

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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby Italysearcher » 16 Mar 2015, 13:59

Maybe they just assumed he survived her if they had received no word from him. He also could have survived long past the records that are on line or on microfilm.
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Re: reference to atto di morte

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 16 Mar 2015, 14:26

i considered all that.the son gave the death information,so i would assume he knew if his father were still alive.but as this man was very elusive and appears to have left the family early on,its possible the son didnt know if his father were living or deceased.or he may have been aware of his parents marital status and just gave the answer he gave accordingly.after all, his fathers status,living or deceased,would have been in sicily-not here.also,as the subject was born in 1851,he could have lived a very long life,not dying until long after the civil records time period i was able to check.he would have only been 50 in 1902.or he could have died before 1902.his last recorded child was in 1880 in barcellona pg,and in this record his whereabouts are noted as unknown.so theoretically he could have died anytime from 1880 right up to the 1940s if he lived into his 90s.see the problem here-no comune or dates to go by?normally,if they were married,he would have come first and been joined by his wife and my grandmother.but this was not the case here.his only son lived in boston-yet only the wife comes to join her son.my guess is their lack of actually being married as well as the possibility of his already being deceased could be the problem.many possibilities.


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