Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

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DanceDiva234
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Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby DanceDiva234 » 05 Feb 2015, 05:29

So my maternal grandmother is Ann Theresa (Angelicola) Messineo. Her father is Pasquale "Patsy" Angelicola and mother Catherine "Katie" (Dattellis) Angelicola. I am completely and utterly stumped regarding my maternal great grandmother's last name. Supposedly, nearby immigrants didn't approve of the last name because it was of French origin. This last name in the family is still debated among my relatives and if it is of Italian origin I would think of it as Roman ancestry.

1. My g grandmother was born in Italy
2. No clue of her date of birth but died around 1962.
3. She married Pasquale at the age of 17 and had 9 children.

Main Questions:
1. Who were Catherine's parents?
2. How many marriages did Catherine's mother go through?
3. When was she born?
4. Is Datellis an Italian surname or...?

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 06:21

Hi, seeming that Catherine was born around 1895:


Catherine Angelicola

United States Census, 1940

Name: Catherine Angelicola
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1940
Event Place: Assembly District 13, Brooklyn, New York City, Kings, New York, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 45
Marital Status: Married
Race (Original): White
Race: White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Wife
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Italy
Birth Year (Estimated): 1895
Last Place of Residence: Same Place

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Patsy Angelicola Head M 49 Italy
Catherine Angelicola Wife F 45 Italy
Joseph Angelicola Son M 23 New York
Grace Angelicola Daughter F 20 New York
Michael Angelicola Son M 18 New York
Micholas Angelicola Son M 16 New York
Anthony Angelicola Son M 14 New York
Catherine Angelicola Daughter F 12 New York
Anna Angelicola Daughter F 5 New York

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 06:23

here the marriage record: Kings 4th Feb 1912
Angelonciola* Pasquale Feb 4 1912 925 (1912) Kings 1613500 Dattelli, Catarina
*Angelicola
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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby Anizio » 05 Feb 2015, 06:28

I would suggest to you that it is in fact an Italian name, originating as latin (so you were pretty close thinking it was roman) in the same vein as names like de Michelis, de Angelis, or de Capite. As such I would say the name actually started as "de Attellis" which eventually evolved into d'Attellis, and then, as many North American names, changed into Dattellis (I know a lawyer named diVincenzo and another person name Direnzo. A lot of names get butchered by immigration officials and English speaking descendants.)

d'Attellis, which I think in the current version of the name, is very rare in Italy. I think the best way to find the origin of your great grandmother would be to find her immigration papers which may say the town she came from, and then you can go from there finding her birth record. Although I think it is likely Southern. If she immigrated with your great grandfather I suggest checking Celenza first, especially since I have found other 1800s records that show D'Attellis family members in Celenza.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby Anizio » 05 Feb 2015, 07:01

Also you may find this website useful:

http://www.celenzaheritage.com/main/surnames.html
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 11:40

I believe that this record is abt your Catherine:


Kate Datello

New York, State Census, 1905

Name: Kate Datello
Residence Place: Brooklyn, Kings, New York
Age: 10
Birth Year (Estimated): 1895
Birthplace: Italy
Relationship to Head of Household: Sister
Race: W

Frank Datello Head M 29y Italy
Lucy Datello Wife F 25y Italy
Louisa Datello Daughter F 3y United States
Michael Datello Son M 2y United States
Rose Datello Daughter F 8m United States
Lousia Datello Mother F 47y Italy
Joseph Datello Brother M 13y Italy
Kate Datello Sister F 10y Italy


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1463113
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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 12:01

the little brother of Catherine was Joseph ( Giuseppe in italian), here the possible WWI draft registration card:

Joseph Dattelico

United States World War I Draft Registration Cards
Name: Joseph Dattelico
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1917-1918
Event Place: New York City no 19, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Nationality: Italy
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1893
Birthplace: Modugno, , Italy

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1968530

the right italian surname spelling could be DATTOLICO( also spelled D'Attolico, sometimes..)
I don't know if this Birth record could be abt right Giuseppe Dattolico
Giuseppe Dattolico was born in Modugno, IT on 6 Feb 1893 # 70, son of Vito Dattolico 33 old farmer and of Maria Carbonara
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/Archivio+di+Stato+di+Bari/Stato+civile+italiano/Modugno/Nati/1893/005620542_00209.jpg.html
just a suggestion,
best,

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 14:06

hmm the link no work, here right link of Giuseppe Dattolico birth act http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 15:50

suanj wrote:the little brother of Catherine was Joseph ( Giuseppe in italian), here the possible WWI draft registration card:

Joseph Dattelico

United States World War I Draft Registration Cards
Name: Joseph Dattelico
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1917-1918
Event Place: New York City no 19, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Nationality: Italy
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1893
Birthplace: Modugno, , Italy

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1968530

the right italian surname spelling could be DATTOLICO( also spelled D'Attolico, sometimes..)
I don't know if this Birth record could be abt right Giuseppe Dattolico
Giuseppe Dattolico was born in Modugno, IT on 6 Feb 1893 # 70, son of Vito Dattolico 33 old farmer and of Maria Carbonara
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/Archivio+di+Stato+di+Bari/Stato+civile+italiano/Modugno/Nati/1893/005620542_00209.jpg.html
just a suggestion,
best,

suanj


I found another possible record, by Dattellis surname:


Joseph Dattellis

United States World War I Draft Registration Cards

Name: Joseph Dattellis
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1917-1918
Event Place: New York City no 54, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Nationality: Italy
Birth Date: 07 Sep 1891
Birthplace: Celenya, Foggia, Italy

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1968530
maybe... most probable than previous...
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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby suanj » 05 Feb 2015, 16:08

Finally, right record, sorry abt Dattolico, I was wrong, D'Attellis is right surname:
Caterina D'Attellis arrival:
First Name : Caterina
Last Name : D'Alttellio
Nationality : Italy, Italian
Last Place of Residence : Celeusa Valfortio
Date of Arrival : November 14th, 1902
Age at Arrival : 7y
Gender : Female
Marital Status : Single
Ship of Travel : Trojan Prince
Port of Departure : Naples
Manifest Line Number : 0008

http://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/s ... SUYiOw==/1
with mother Luisa Iarezza 48 old, Giuseppe D'Attellis 10 old, Caterina D'Attellis 7 old
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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby DanceDiva234 » 06 Feb 2015, 01:15

Thank you so much for the clarification on the last name and all the documents! Seriously, we were totally stumped there. I called my nanny when I received the information and she was so excited and fascinated to hear it all. Now we are still trying to figure out if Luisa Larezza was in fact her maiden name or if she was married previously with that name. D'Attellis is supposed to be Katie's step-father's name. Although, no document seems to support that. It could be that the step-father died before immigrating.

The last document is definitely the most accurate pertaining to Katie but the a few others, those listing her sons and daughter are good and as well Frank being the head of the household. I've told my nanny but she said that Frank wasn't Catherine's brother. So who knows.

My nanny said they changed their last name spelling to Datello in order to receive coal for their home. They were given access to it. :wink: :lol:

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby Filmways » 06 Feb 2015, 01:42

I hope this message will get through.
I believe you are on the wrong track. You are South Italian from both sites mother and father and although Italian, you are of Greek descent from both sites.
The two name you give are:
Angelicola that derives from Greek Angelicula (Angelikoula) (the little Angela).
The second name name you give is Dattellis.
That is of course two words (as every Italian knows) Da + Ttellis.

The spelling is wrong: The Tellis is short for ARISTOTELIS (for example: Tellis Onasis, Tellis Savalas, etc); In other words the correct spelling is Da Tellis (of (son or daughter) Tellis)

I will stop here just in case I write too much.

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby DanceDiva234 » 06 Feb 2015, 02:01

Filmways wrote:I hope this message will get through.
I believe you are on the wrong track. You are South Italian from both sites mother and father and although Italian, you are of Greek descent from both sites.
The two name you give are:
Angelicola that derives from Greek Angelicula (Angelikoula) (the little Angela).
The second name name you give is Dattellis.
That is of course two words (as every Italian knows) Da + Ttellis.

The spelling is wrong: The Tellis is short for ARISTOTELIS (for example: Tellis Onasis, Tellis Savalas, etc); In other words the correct spelling is Da Tellis (of (son or daughter) Tellis)

I will stop here just in case I write too much.


Very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if there is Greek mixed. My mom's father's side was Sicillian so I would have thought more from them but I can see where you are going with the last name. I'll see what I can find. Thank you for your knowledge because I never would have thought that. My mom's side is supposedly pure Italian on the maternal side. Maybe not :idea: :o

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby Filmways » 06 Feb 2015, 02:07

My guess was Sicily or Regio di Calabria. There are only THREE Italian names that start with "ATT"
Attendollo, Attolino and Attolico so the possibility that the name is D'ATT>>>> are remote.

Angelicola must derive from the Greek Byzantine family d'Angelo also known as d'Angelis.

Almost ALL Italians south of Venice have some Greek Blood and almost All Greeks south of Thessaloniki and the Islands have some Italian Blood. That why we are one family (Una Fatsa Una Ratsa).
I am Greek and my Grandmother is Dandolo.

I just remembered that the wife's name of a Friend of mine (Italian Friend) is d'Aristotel or something like that, she is from SOuth Italy and she is well aware that her ancestors 4-5 generations back are Greek. Check the name d'Aristotel (or something like that).

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Re: Dattellis Italian Genealogy Stumped- Need Info!

Postby Anizio » 06 Feb 2015, 05:52

De Attellis and d'Attellis are from Celenza, the same town as the husband. She is not down the wrong track. If the family is from outside of that region it is much farther back than the point she is researching now. If it is of Greek origin that would be VERY far back on the family line. The evidence clearly points to Celenza first with records of the d'Attellis family in Celenza going back to 1700. The origin may be different but we aren't talking about origin here.

I caution you not to take Folmways at his word. My family name, Carlucci, is Southern and from around Bari mostly, yet my particular line goes from Rome to Macerata to Camerino all the way back to 1730. An origin of a name is not everything, names do travel.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information


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