Advice on finding Italian records

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thasensei
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Advice on finding Italian records

Postby thasensei » 15 Feb 2015, 17:48

Hello,

I'm just starting to get into family research, and I'm having some difficulty getting started with research for Italy. I'm hoping the kind members here can help me get pointed in the right direction.

I have two separate branches of family that come from Italy. The first is my mother's grandfather Augusto Zuccari from Amatrice, Riete, Lazio, Italy. The second is my father's grandparents Davide Spinelli from Ripatransone, Italy and Rosa Cameli from Offida, Ascoli Piceno, Marche, Italy. I haven't had any luck figuring out where to even start looking for records for those areas, so any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Online sources would be fantastic, but I understand that's not always an option; so guidace on where/how to communicate with the places that may hold the records would be extremely helpful.

Years ago, a member was kind enough to give me some advice on contacting a records office in Offida, but unfortunately I couldn't get in touch with anyone there (Sending a follow-up now, hopefully with a better translation).

I realize this is a broad request, so if there's any follow up information I can provide to help focus the question please let me know.

Thank you in advance!

-Shaun

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Anizio » 15 Feb 2015, 18:24

Online records are for the most part an impossibility for most places in Italy, and for most time periods.

What you want to do is not difficult, contacting the towns that is, and the only reason they would have probably ignored you is that your italian was bad or your request was too vague.

Please provide us ALL the information you have on the individuals in question: dates and locations of death, birth, marriage, parents, spouse, and children names, etc.

Using that I(we) can tell you what records you may find, where to request or find them, and how to write your letter in proper Italian so as to ensure a response (in is their job in the records offices to respond so the only reason they wouldn't is mistake or something wrong with your request).

When you do, either by email or letter (in case someone else helps you) make sure:
I. the names of your family are the proper italian names (no "Joe" or "John")
II. make sure it is ALL in proper Italian, get help from someone.
III. Make sure you request it in carta libera, or they will charge you.
IV. Make sure you ask for "una copia integrale" (a photocopy of the original) NOT an "estratto" - anyone who recommends an extract is giving bad advice. We can help you interpret the copia integrale later.
V. Do NOT include money or return postage in your letter unless they have specifically sent you a reply asking for it. Just include inside an envelop (bigger is better) pre-addressed to yourself to make it easier for them.

I you have any other/specific questions you can PM me.
But please, give us ALL the information about your family members here so we know how to help, where to look, and what to say.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Robin B Mc » 15 Feb 2015, 19:00

There are actually records for Amatrice available online - I don't know why but they're listed under Abruzzo, L'Aquila:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... Id=7261970

The most recent year available is 1865 though so you will need to research back to that year before you can use these records.

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Anizio » 15 Feb 2015, 19:08

Robin B Mc wrote:There are actually records for Amatrice available online - I don't know why but they're listed under Abruzzo, L'Aquila:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... Id=7261970

The most recent year available is 1865 though so you will need to research back to that year before you can use these records.


The reason for that is, in the old Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, parts of what is today Rieti were part of the Kingdom in the province of Abruzzo. The borders were not always as they are today.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby thasensei » 16 Feb 2015, 00:31

Thanks so much for the quick response! Here's what I've got. The specific towns listed below are from various records such as ship arrivals and military registration, so they may not be 100% accurate.

And thank you for the links, I will absolutely check those out!

1. Augusto Zuccari
Born April 1 (or 4) 1890 in Amatrice, Riete, Lazio, Italy.
1st marriage to Bertha Smith, though I'm not sure when or where.
2nd marriage to Maddalena Classetti in Masontown, West Virginia, US 28 Jan 1952.
Died June 1980 in Preston, West Virginia, US.
Father listed as "Joseph", which I imagine is Giusepe Zuccari.
Mother listed as "Elizabeth", so perhaps Elisabetta.
I'm not positive, but I believe he also had a brother named Mariano Zuccari (born 1883).
I believe Augusto and Mariano both moved to the states together, though I'm not sure when.

2. Davide Spinelli
Born 29 March 1894 in Ripatransone, Ascoli Piceno, Marche, Italy.
Married Rosa Camela [or possibly Camilli] 3 July 1919.
Several children, but I believe the oldest (Lucia 1921) was the only one born in Italy.
Davide made several trips to the US, but Rosa and Lucia followed in late 1921 or early 1922.
Became a Naturalized US Citizen 9 May 1928.
Died 15 Sept 1982
Father: Domenic Spinelli
Siblings: Frances, Nancy, Maria, Anthony, and Guy. I have no idea when or where any of them were born.

3. Rosa Camela/Camilli
Born 27 June 1900 in Italy.
Died 26 Apr 1987 in West Virginia, US.
Father: Possibly Saverio?
Siblings: Maria and others whose names I'm unsure of.


3. Lucia Spinelli
Born 29 Apr 1921 in Ascoli Piceno, Marche, Italy.

I believe that Rosa and Lucia lived in Offida, Ascoli Piceno prior to moving to the US.

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Letter 1: Augusto Zuccari Birth Record

Postby Anizio » 16 Feb 2015, 03:21

LETTER 1 - Augusto Zuccari Birth Record

Gianfranco Lopez
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Via Roma, 38
02012, Amatrice (RI)
Italia

email if this is how you do it: anagrafe@pec.comune.amatrice.rieti.it (if so, use the subject heading "richiesta: stato civile")

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo (your name), ed abito nel (your country, in Italian), all'indirizzo sopraddetto (so include your address at the top of any letter/email. Make it easy for them). Cerco informazioni sul mio bisnonno, Augusto Zuccari. Cerco questi dati per conoscere meglio la mia famiglia.

Vi sarei molto grato se poteste spedirmi una copia integrale dell'atto di nascita di Augusto Zuccari, in carta libera o via email. Augusto Zuccari era nato 1 o 4 aprile 1890 a Amatrice. I suoi genitori erano chiamati Giuseppe Zuccari e Elisabetta. Lui aveva un fratello, Mariano, nato 1883.

Vi ringrazio in anticipo per la vostra gentilezza e premura, vi prego di addebitarmi tutte le spese postali e dei certificati.

Distini saluti,

(your name and email)
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Letter 2: Davide Spinelli

Postby Anizio » 16 Feb 2015, 03:32

LETTER 2 - Davide Spinelli birth record

Ivana Volpi
Ufficio Stato Civile
Piazza XX Settembre, 1
63065, Ripatransone (AP)
Italia

email if this is how you do it: anagrafe@pec.comune.ripatransone.ap.it
(if so, use the subject heading "richiesta: stato civile")

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo (your name), ed abito nel (your country, in Italian), all'indirizzo sopraddetto (so include your address at the top of any letter/email. Make it easy for them). Cerco informazioni sul mio bisnonno, Davide Spinelli. Cerco questi dati per conoscere meglio la mia famiglia.

Vi sarei molto grato se poteste spedirmi una copia integrale dell'atto di nascita di Davide Spinelli, in carta libera o via email. Davide Spinelli era nato 29 marzo 1894 a Ripatransone. Il suo padre si chiamava Domenico. Sposò Rosa Camela (o Camilli) 3 luglio 1919.

Vi ringrazio in anticipo per la vostra gentilezza e premura, vi prego di addebitarmi tutte le spese postali e dei certificati.

Distini saluti,

(your name and email)
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Letter 3: Rosa Camela o Camilli

Postby Anizio » 16 Feb 2015, 03:42

LETTER 3 - Rosa Birth and Marriage Records

Dott.ssa Ornella Nespeca
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Corso Serpente Aureo, 66
63073 Offida (AP)
Italia

email if this is how you do it: anagrafe@comune.offida.ap.it (if so, use the subject heading "richiesta: stato civile")

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo (your name), ed abito nel (your country, in Italian), all'indirizzo sopraddetto (so include your address at the top of any letter/email. Make it easy for them). Cerco informazioni sulla mia bisnonna, Rosa Camela (o Camilli). Cerco questi dati per conoscere meglio la mia famiglia.

Vi sarei molto grato se poteste spedirmi una copia integrale dell'atto di nascita di Rosa e una copia integrale dell'atto di matrimonio di Rosa Camela (o Camilli) e Davide Spinelli, in carta libera o via email. Rosa era nata 27 giugno 1900 a Offida. Il suo padre si chiamava Saverio. Sposò Davide Spinelli 3 luglio 1919. Lei aveva una figlia, Lucia Spinelli, nata 29 aprile 1921 a Offida.

Vi ringrazio in anticipo per la vostra gentilezza e premura, vi prego di addebitarmi tutte le spese postali e dei certificati.

Distini saluti,

(your name and email)
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Anizio » 16 Feb 2015, 03:44

So those are three letters or emails you can send right away for 3 birth certificates and the marriage record, see what the response is. If they send the records that will give leads, and if they can't find them then you know there might be an error in your information )or they could be lazy, it happens).

Based on the birth years, you can also request the military records for Davide Spinelli and Augusto Zuccari - this will also include interesting and useful information.
I have also done this so I can help if so desired.

Feel free to PM me at any time if you have questions or need something. Easier to track PMs than the forum, sometimes I don't come on for a week.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby thasensei » 16 Feb 2015, 04:37

You have been incredibly helpful, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help me out. I've sent the e-mails, so hopefully I'll hear back soon. If not, I'll try postal mail and hope for better luck.

One minor note in case anyone else is looking to contact Amatrice, the e-mail address appears to have changed to uff.anagrafe@comune.amatrice.rieti.it (http://www.comune.amatrice.rieti.it/ind ... &Itemid=30)

Also, thank you again, Robin, for the link! While I'm not that far back yet, that will almost certainly come in handy in the future.

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Anizio » 16 Feb 2015, 04:53

My pleasure.
If those letters don't work out I recommend making requests for military records "ruoli matricolari" (lista di leva is less helpful) from the State Archives in Rieti and Ascoli Piceno. Those records will include a physical description, address, parents names, and more - if they joined the Italian military at 20 that is. Most men did for a couple years at that time.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby thasensei » 17 Feb 2015, 00:57

Just following up, I already got a response from one of the emails (the one from Ripatronsone). Really excited to be learning just that little bit more about my family! I now know Davide's full name and have confirmation on his birth date. I also know his mother's name and father's age, which I didn't have before.

A question of etiquette, is it rude for me to send a follow up request so soon to the same office requesting further records? I'm hoping that Davide's parents were married in the same town so I can request their marriage record, and perhaps even their birth records.

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby Anizio » 17 Feb 2015, 01:13

Generally I wait 2-3 months or more in between requests to the same town, to reduce the chance of them ignoring my request or getting annoyed, but others may have different recommendations. No way to predict how different Stato Civile officials will react - some love to help, some are more easily annoyed.

If you are eager, I would recommend military records which would come from the State Archive instead of the Comune itself. Domenico was born in 1865, so all you would need to say is that he is in the class of 1865 from Riptransone. By requesting i ruoli matricolari you will receive (or should) a document that includes Domenico's exact date of birth, his parents names, his physical description (hair eyes, etc.) and his address at the age of 20. Generally I usually ask for Ruoli Matricolari and any other military documents that may exist, and sometimes, though rarely, they do send me additional documents about an ancestor's military history.

This would be the letter to send:

Archivio di Stato di Ascoli Piceno
Via San Serafino da Montegranaro, 8/C
63100 Ascoli Piceno (AP)
Italia

(email: as-ap@beniculturali.it, subject: "richiesta: Ruoli Matricolari")

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo (your name), ed abito nel (your country), all'indirizzo sopraddetto (include address at top of email or letter). Cerco informazioni sul mio trisnonno, Domenico Spinelli. Cerco questi dati per conoscere meglio la mia famiglia.

Vi sarei molto grato se poteste spedirmi i ruoli matricolari (e, se possibile, gli altri documenti militari che possono esistere) di Domenico Spinelli, in carta libera o via email. Domenico Spinelli era nato circa 1865 a Ripatransone.

Vi ringrazio in anticipo per la vostra gentilezza e premura, vi prego di addebitarmi tutte le spese postali e dei certificati.

Distini saluti,

(your name)
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Advice on finding Italian records

Postby joetucciarone » 18 Feb 2015, 10:54

If you're interested in what your family may have been doing here in America, have a look at some online newspaper archives, like those on the Library of Congress website. Their records are searchable with keywords. Even some small towns have online records. For example, Greenville, PA, which has a population under twenty-thousand, has a searchable newspaper archive that goes back into the 1800s. That was where my Sicilian great-great-grandparents settled, and I found a dozen news articles about them with stories that had been long-forgotten in my family.

Another side of my family settled in Hubbard, Ohio, a small suburb of Youngstown. Like most big-city newspapers, the Youngstown Vindicator regularly featured articles about its suburbs. I found a bunch of Hubbard stories about my family from the late 1800s & early 1900s there.

Joe


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