Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

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Robin B Mc
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Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Robin B Mc » 01 Mar 2015, 00:20

I've been using the microfilm collection of Monteroduni: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library

But I need a marriage record from 1902-1903. Where would I find that? Do I have to write to the town to get it? Every time I've tried that I've never gotten an response.

I'm looking for: Angelo (Charles) Scioli (b. Jun 1881/3 in Philadelphia) married Giuseppa (Josephine) Biello (b. 1884 in Monteroduni) in 1902 or 1903 in Monteroduni. I have researched Josephine's family in Monteroduni and always assumed the Sciolis came from Monteroduni too, since that's where Angelo went to get married and because when looking through records in Monteroduni, there are a lot of Sciolis. However, Angelo's death certificate says his parents were Thomas/Tommaso Scioli and Loretta Palladino (also a lot of Palladinos in Monteroduni) and I can't find any records of them in Monteroduni. Granted, I'm kind of searching blindly because I don't know when they were born - but I've searched all birth records from 1844 to 1865, and all marriages from 1866 to 1882.

I've equally had no luck finding records of Thomas and Loretta in America. The only possibility is this passenger list which show Tommaso Scioli b. 1847 arriving with 11 year old Angelo Scioli - but there's not enough info to confirm it's what I'm looking for. No mention of Monteroduni or birth location to confirm Angelo born in PA: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... 4000453885

So I'm hoping Angelo and Giuseppa's marriage records will give me more info on Angelo's parents. But where do I find them? Thanks in advance!

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Anizio » 01 Mar 2015, 00:34

Yes you have to write to the town.

How exactly have you done it before? Its their job to provide records, so if you were ignored there was a reason like: you wrote in english, you used google translate, you didn't give enough information and required too much work from them, etc.

If you need help creating a letter, ask.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Mar 2015, 00:38

I've equally had no luck finding records of Thomas and Loretta in America. The only possibility is this passenger list which show Tommaso Scioli b. 1847 arriving with 11 year old Angelo Scioli - but there's not enough info to confirm it's what I'm looking for. No mention of Monteroduni or birth location to confirm Angelo born in PA: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... 4000453885


BOTH Tommaso and Angelo list native country as Italy. That would not be the case if Angelo was born in PA. What makes you sure he was born in US?

T.

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Robin B Mc » 01 Mar 2015, 19:19

Tessa78 wrote:
I've equally had no luck finding records of Thomas and Loretta in America. The only possibility is this passenger list which show Tommaso Scioli b. 1847 arriving with 11 year old Angelo Scioli - but there's not enough info to confirm it's what I'm looking for. No mention of Monteroduni or birth location to confirm Angelo born in PA: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... 4000453885


BOTH Tommaso and Angelo list native country as Italy. That would not be the case if Angelo was born in PA. What makes you sure he was born in US?

T.


Well, I don't know that the passenger list I linked to is of "my" Angelo and his father, I just listed it as the only possible record that might be of my Tommaso, I don't know that it is.

The following records say he was born in PA: 1900 census, 1920, 1930, his death certificate, his WWII draft records, and a passenger list that I know is of him returning to the US after his marriage in Monteroduni.

Death certificate: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... plz0q3dpid

WWII draft: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... plz0q3dpid

Passenger list from 1903: http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/ViewRecord ... 8&pgpl=pid

I know the 1903 passenger list says his nationality is Italian but if you look closely, it also seems to say "Born in Phila & stayed there until 1887" (actually looks like 1881 but if he was born in 1881 that doesn't make a huge amount of sense so I'm guessing it's a 7). Also, it mentions his brother Giovanni and I've done research on him - granted, he was born after Angelo but he too seems to have been born in Philadelphia. I'm in the process of trying to find a Philadelphia birth return for Angelo and Giovanni.

The only record that really conflicts with this is the WWI draft record which says he was naturalized, not native born but that could easily have been an error - perhaps it was obvious he was ethnically Italian and maybe even fluent in Italian so someone just assumed he was foreign born: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... plz0q3dpid

Since his passenger list says Nationality Italian but also says he was born in Philadelphia, I figured the same thing could have easily happened on another passenger list.

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Robin B Mc » 01 Mar 2015, 19:34

Anizio wrote:Yes you have to write to the town.

How exactly have you done it before? Its their job to provide records, so if you were ignored there was a reason like: you wrote in english, you used google translate, you didn't give enough information and required too much work from them, etc.

If you need help creating a letter, ask.


Thanks, I had emailed them in English and provided a copy in Italian which I took from FamilySearch.org's translations: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ ... in_Italian

I guess it still wasn't good enough? If anyone here can provide a better letter, I would be very grateful - I think I mentioned all necessary info but here it is again:

Looking for the 1901-3 marriage record (and any processetti) for:
Angelo Scioli (b. Jun 1881/3 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA) to Giuseppa Biello (b. 1884 in Monteroduni, Italy).

I was told by family they married in 1903 but Angelo left Monteroduni and went back to the US in Jan 1903 so I'm assuming it was more likely in 1902. But come to think of it, it could have been in 1901 too.

If it helps, Angelo's parents were supposedly Tommaso Scioli and Loretta Palladino, and Giuseppa's parents were Giovanni Biello and Dorodea Biello (maiden name same as married).

Thank you again to anyone who can help or provide a good letter that will actually get me a response!

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Mar 2015, 20:47

I know the 1903 passenger list says his nationality is Italian but if you look closely, it also seems to say "Born in Phila & stayed there until 1887" (actually looks like 1881 but if he was born in 1881 that doesn't make a huge amount of sense so I'm guessing it's a 7).


I located an 1899 arrival in February aboard the Trojan Prince. Appears to be the correct Angelo Scioli. He is age 18, single, and from Monteroduni.
When asked if in USA before?... it states "be born in Filadelfia"
ON PAGE 2 of the manifest it states, " Born in US, but subject of Italy"

He is on line 23
page 1
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... 15_50-0370
page 2
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... 15_50-0371

T.

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Robin B Mc » 02 Mar 2015, 04:09

Tessa78 wrote:
I know the 1903 passenger list says his nationality is Italian but if you look closely, it also seems to say "Born in Phila & stayed there until 1887" (actually looks like 1881 but if he was born in 1881 that doesn't make a huge amount of sense so I'm guessing it's a 7).


I located an 1899 arrival in February aboard the Trojan Prince. Appears to be the correct Angelo Scioli. He is age 18, single, and from Monteroduni.
When asked if in USA before?... it states "be born in Filadelfia"
ON PAGE 2 of the manifest it states, " Born in US, but subject of Italy"

He is on line 23
page 1
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... 15_50-0370
page 2
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... 15_50-0371

T.


Thanks, I had bookmarked that one but for some reason, wasn't totally sure it was of my Angelo - I think because there's so many Sciolis from Monteroduni I felt like I couldn't be sure. But you're right, the fact that it says he was born in Philly is a good clue. Unfortunately it doesn't give me any clue about his parents though.

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Re: Post-1900 Monteroduni records?

Postby Robin B Mc » 05 Mar 2015, 04:53

Never mind on the marriage record - I may still want it some day but the good news is I finally found Angelo's parents in the Monteroduni records!

I'd overlooked them because as it turns out, the father's name wasn't just Thomas/Tomaso, it was Giovantomaso! I found him by returning to the Monteroduni birth records with fresh eyes and with the intent of specifically looking for him around 1847, when that passenger list says his birth was. Found him in 1846 but still wasn't totally positive it was the guy I was looking for so I went looking for the marriage record of Giovantomaso and found it in 1879, married to Lorenza Palladino. So that confirmed it was the right guy.

I assumed that was why I missed Lorenza as well, because I'd been looking for Loretta. But when I went back to the birth records, I still couldn't find her, even focusing on the years in and around 1859 (marriage record said she was 20). I thought maybe she was born in a nearby town but I did find what appears to be two of her siblings births in Monteroduni, one in 1855 and one in 1860 - if Lorenza was born in 1859, it seems unlikely they would go from Monteroduni to another town and back to Monteroduni but you never know.

Also frustrating is the fact that Lorenza's father is unknown - her mother is Giovanna Palladino. Same is listed on her sibling's birth records: father unknown, mother Giovanna Palladino. What's up with that? Was Giovanna a prostitute?


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