Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

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icebsu
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Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 25 Mar 2015, 05:30

Hello again everyone!

Thanks to the help of these forums in that past I've been able to make strides in researching my Great Grandmother's, Angela Maria Zupa, family line in San Fele. I've been able to find two and three generations further back in my family along with several other relatives that no one in my family had any previous knowledge of... so again I say thank you to this site for helping me push my research further along.

I start this thread to toss out a request for help as I'm finding myself a little stuck with a few of my ancestors.

What I have found thus far was confirmation that Angela Maria Zupa's parents were Antonio Maria Zupa and Filomena Tomasulo (these are my 2nd Great Grandparents).

Antonio M Zupa, born around 1841 and died 03 January 1920 (found records confirming his death)
Filomena Tomasulo, born around 1856 and I have no luck finding records of her death, though I do know she immigrated to the USA after her husband died in 1920. If anyone has a suggestion or can take a stab at finding what I cannot with her that would be appreciated.

Anotinio's parents are Giambattista Zupa and Caterina Di Napoli (these are my 3rd Great Grandparents)

Giambattista Zupa, born around 1895 and died 20 July 1875 (found records confirming his death)

Caterina Di Napoli, is a person where I am stumbling. I cannot find a record of her death and she and her husband are old enough that the marriage records do not go back far enough for me to estimate a marriage year. I had believed based upon records I found for her children that the latest record of her being alive is in 1885 and at the death of her daughter she is listed as dead in 1892. However, when I research deaths in these years I cannot find her anywhere. I'm hopeful that since I know there is a plethora of knowledge available in this forum that someone might be able to help me find her.

I've been lucky enough to find that Giambattista's parents were Francesco Zupa and Angela (or Augila?) Berri (spelling might be off the record is a little difficult to read) these are my 4th great grandparents. I skeptical that I will be able to push any further back in time since the Family Search records stop at 1860 for San Fele.

When I researched Filomena Tomasulo, I was able to discover her parents names were Giuseppe Tomasulo and Angela Maria Pinto (3rd Great Grandparents).

This is the second point where I am being held up. I have not yet found any records that can assist me in finding any dates associated with either of these people. So, this is where I look again to this forum to possible help me find some sort of record for Giusseppe or Angela Maria.

Thank you in advance for your time!

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Tessa78
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby Tessa78 » 25 Mar 2015, 17:38

Based on this death record... Giambattista Zupa died on 28 (not 20) July 1875 - at age 80 - so born about 1795 :D

More importantly, he is listed as widower of Caterina Di Napoli - which means that Caterina was deceased before 28 July 1875.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,55126901

T.

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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 31 Mar 2015, 03:58

Tessa78 wrote:Based on this death record... Giambattista Zupa died on 28 (not 20) July 1875 - at age 80 - so born about 1795 :D

More importantly, he is listed as widower of Caterina Di Napoli - which means that Caterina was deceased before 28 July 1875.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,55126901

T.


Thank you Tessa78! You found the same thing I had found, but this confuses me because if you look at this marriage record from 1885 for his son Antonio Maria Zupa (which is 10 years after Giambattista's death) this document suggests she's alive. Unless I'm translating it incorrectly...I thought it said he that Antonio Maria Zupa was the son of the late Giambattista. Then that he was residing in San Fele with Caterina Di Napoli resident of San Fele.

It's very possible that I did not translate this correctly as I've only recently started trying to learn to read Italian.

Please take a look at this record and let me know my mistakes. Thank you!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5651598/1885_San_Fele_Marriage_Ledger%28Page_128%29.jpg

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Tessa78
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Apr 2015, 01:10

Yes, you are correct, the marriage record of Antonio Zupa indicates that his mother, Caterina di Napoli, was residing in San Fele.

A mistake? Definitely possible. :?

T.

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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby adelfio » 01 Apr 2015, 03:39

Try looking for another sibling of Antonio Zupa marriage record in San Fele

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icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 02 Apr 2015, 05:32

adelfio wrote:Try looking for another sibling of Antonio Zupa marriage record in San Fele

Marty


Thanks for the suggestion, Marty!

I've been so far I've found a sister, Agnese Zupa, that passed in 1892 and that record lists Caterina Di Napoli as deceased.

I hadn't yet thought to look at Marriage Records for the siblings.

icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 08 Apr 2015, 08:48

OK, everyone I've found myself in a riddle! I was able to find a Marriage record for Antonio Zupa to his first wife Maria Francesca Grieco in 1877. This record lists his mother, Caterina Di Napoli as deceased.

So, finding this information I renewed my search in earlier years than my previous assumption. I was able to find a death record from 1865 for a Caterina Di Napoli who was 70 years old (note that this is 10 years before Giambattista died, he was 80 years old)

I am not convinced that this is the correct Caterina Di Napoli because it lists her as the widow of the late Domenico La Rossa. If this were the correct Caterina wouldn't Giambattista Zupa be listed as her husband at her death as so many other records do?

I haven't had any luck finding any other Caterina Di Napoli's from 1861 through 1885.

Can anyone give me some additional insight or suggestions?

And here is a link to the Death for the Caterina Di Napoli that I was able to find:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1,55019001

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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby Tessa78 » 08 Apr 2015, 13:06

icebsu wrote:OK, everyone I've found myself in a riddle! I was able to find a Marriage record for Antonio Zupa to his first wife Maria Francesca Grieco in 1877. This record lists his mother, Caterina Di Napoli as deceased.

So, finding this information I renewed my search in earlier years than my previous assumption. I was able to find a death record from 1865 for a Caterina Di Napoli who was 60 - sessanta years old (note that this is 10 years before Giambattista died, he was 80 years old)
1


The death record for the Caterina Di Napoli you found lists her age at death as 60, not 70.

Were you able to find the Allegati (attachments) for the first marriage of Antonio Zupa? It should contain a copy of the death act for his mother.

T.

icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 09 Apr 2015, 05:46

Thank you for the suggestion, Tessa! I didn't know what the Allegati records were, so thank you for explaining that to me!

Unfortunately, there are no Allegati for 1877 in the online records.

In other news, I found another birth record for a member of my family. However, I have no idea what her middle name is supposed to be! Can someone please take a look at birth # 315 and tell me what they think? I'm thinking Maria Fppolita Zupa but that just doesn't make sense to me. Anyone have a better interpretation of the handwriting?

Here is the record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 1,56102101

icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 09 Apr 2015, 06:24

Also could someone please explain to me what the historical difference between the different types of marriage records are? I see there are "Atti di Matrimonio" and "Publicazione di Matrimonio"

I understand that one is a Marriage Record and one is a Marriage Publication, but what was the purpose of two documents?

Just looking to better understand how these records were used historically.

Thanks!

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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby PippoM » 09 Apr 2015, 14:23

Before marriage, spouses had to go to the Town Hall to declare their intentions, and bring all needed documents.
Then the "Pubblicazioni" was written down, and it was affixed on the door of the Town Hall (both of the groom's and bride's towns), so that everybody could know.
After some time(15 days, I think), they could go to the Town Hall again for their proper marriage.
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Tessa78
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Apr 2015, 16:20

icebsu wrote:Thank you for the suggestion, Tessa! I didn't know what the Allegati records were, so thank you for explaining that to me!

Unfortunately, there are no Allegati for 1877 in the online records.

In other news, I found another birth record for a member of my family. However, I have no idea what her middle name is supposed to be! Can someone please take a look at birth # 315 and tell me what they think? I'm thinking Maria Fppolita Zupa but that just doesn't make sense to me. Anyone have a better interpretation of the handwriting?

Here is the record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 1,56102101


Her second name is Ippolita :-)

icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 10 Apr 2015, 03:11

Tessa78 wrote:Her second name is Ippolita :-)


Thank you, Tessa!

That makes more sense! I'm working on getting better at reading the older handwriting styles, but obviously I still have troubles.

Thanks for the help!

icebsu
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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby icebsu » 10 Apr 2015, 03:12

PippoM wrote:Before marriage, spouses had to go to the Town Hall to declare their intentions, and bring all needed documents.
Then the "Pubblicazioni" was written down, and it was affixed on the door of the Town Hall (both of the groom's and bride's towns), so that everybody could know.
After some time(15 days, I think), they could go to the Town Hall again for their proper marriage.


Thanks for the information, Pippo! Nice to know the history of the documents :D

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Re: Seeking help with Di Napoli and Tomasulo research

Postby CiaoGina » 10 Aug 2015, 05:26

Hi there,
Some of your surnames look familiar to me. With the help of this board and a visit to San Fele a year ago I was able to research my family back to the 1750's. Johanna Grieco is my 5 times great grandmother. Her son Pietroangelo Lorenzo was married to Caterina Crecco (b 1754) whose mother was Maria Di Napoli. Did I confuse you enough? ;) I didn't find any Zupas or Tomasulos in my research though. Did you find Pittaros?
Gina Lorenzo


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