Searching for Place of Birth

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WayneLalle
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Searching for Place of Birth

Postby WayneLalle » 18 May 2015, 01:58

Earthing for place of birth for my grandfather Peter Anthony Lalle. He was born in Italy , we believe somewhere in Abruzzo on October 24, 1883 or 1884.

Any successions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby Italysearcher » 18 May 2015, 11:32

There is an article on my website about finding the town of origin that you might find helpful.
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 18 May 2015, 17:56

Hi, by WWI draft registration card he was born on 27 oct 1883 in Italy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1968530
the 1900 census:
Felix Lalla

United States Census, 1900
Name:
Felix Lalla
Event Type:
Census
Event Year:
1900
Event Place:
Election District 2 Buffalo city Ward 1, Erie, New York, United States
Gender:
Male
Age:
41
Marital Status:
Married
Race:
White
Race (Original):
W
Relationship to Head of Household:
Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):
Head
Years Married:
19
Birth Date:
Apr 1859
Birthplace:
Italy
Marriage Year (Estimated):
1881
Immigration Year:
1885
Father's Birthplace:
Italy
Mother's Birthplace:
Italy
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Felix Lalla Head M 41 Italy
Sebbina Lalla Wife F 40 Italy (b. dec 1860 Italy; imm. 1890)
Peter Lalla Son M 17 Italy (b. oct 1883 Italy; imm. 1890)
Angela Lalla Daughter F 10 New York
Mary Lalla Daughter F 8 New York
Vincent Lalla Son M 5 New York
Dominnik Lalla Son M 2 New York
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1325221
so Peter father was Felix ( Felice in italian spell); in 1910 census the first name was Philip ( Filippo):


Philip Lalla

United States Census, 1910


Name:
Philip Lalla

Event Type:
Census

Event Year:
1910

Event Place:
Buffalo Ward 2, Erie, New York, United States

Gender:
Male

Age:
54

Marital Status:
Married

Race:
White

Race (Original):
White

Relationship to Head of Household:
Head

Relationship to Head of Household (Original):
Head

Birth Year (Estimated):
1856

Birthplace:
Italy

Immigration Year:
1884

Father's Birthplace:
Italy

Mother's Birthplace:
Italy

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Philip Lalla Head M 54 Italy
Sabina Lalla Wife F 52 Italy
Piedro Lalla Son M 27 Italy
Charles Lalla Son M 20 New York
Mary Lalla Daughter F 16 New York
Dominic Lalla Son M 14 New York
Regina Lalla Daughter F 9 New York
James Lalla Son M 6 New York

hoping helpful,
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby WayneLalle » 18 May 2015, 22:15

susanj:

Thank you very much for this information.
The 1900 Census data was quite helpful.
With this information, how do we determine the city of birth for Peter and Felix ?

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 19 May 2015, 05:43

you know Peter's mother maiden name? so by that we can have a better idea where they came from..
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 19 May 2015, 06:22

I believe that Sabina and little Pietro coming from Castiglione ( maybe Castiglione Messer Marino in Chieti province, or however some Castiglione in Abruzzo province, because the surname is of abruzzo);
I found a arrival 23 Dec 1889, BRITANNIA ship
of a Sabina RAMUNDO (maiden name) travelling with son Pietro RAMUNDO
( travelling with mother maiden name) coming from Castiglione ( on castlegarden.org the province is wrong: no Asti but most probably Chieti )
http://www.castlegarden.org/quick_searc ... id=9958015
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby PippoM » 19 May 2015, 08:43

According to 1910 census Sabina was born in Dec 1860.
So this MIGHT be her tombstone:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... =100208254

(area seems to be the same)
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby PippoM » 19 May 2015, 09:25

This is Felice Lalle(i) tombstone:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... =100208222

in the same place.
So, it should be them.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 19 May 2015, 10:45

Thanks Pippo, I am pretty sure that Felice LALLI and Pietro LALLI birthplace was Castiglione Messer Marino town in Chieti province, Abruzzo region, IT.
And maybe Sabina was born very close to Castiglione Messer Marino, I found a record abt a Birth of Sabina RAMUNDO born in Fraine ( Chieti province) on 23 Dec 1859 ( no 1860) daughter of Angelantonio Ramundo and Reginalda Stampone..
the first name is the same, short version, of the Felice and Sabina second daughter...

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby WayneLalle » 19 May 2015, 12:56

Susanj:

Thank you very much for this information.
Could you please tell me how I can obtain copies of (or links to) the records which you referenced in your last two messages for Sabina Ramundo, Pietro Ramundo, Felice Lalli and Pietro Lalle ? For example, ship manifests and birth records .
Thank you again.
Wayne Lalle

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 19 May 2015, 18:25

sorry no ship's manifest available just the passenger record, almost on castlegarden.org website and also on familysearch.org
so abt Pietro:
Pietro Ramundo United States Italians to America Index
Name:
Pietro Ramundo (Lalli)
Event Type:
Immigration
Event Date:
23 Dec 1889
Event Place:
New York, New York, New York, United States
Gender:
Male
Age:
6
Birthplace:
Italy
Occupation:
Farmer
Ship Name:
Britannia
Birth Year (Estimated):
1883
Departure Port:
Marseilles & Naples
Literacy:
Unknown
Residence Place:
Castiglione
Destination Place:
NEW YORK
Transit or Travel Compartment:
Staying in the USA [Transit]; Steerage [Travel]
Affiliate Manifest ID:
00000356
Affiliate ARC Identifier:
1746097
Affiliate Publication Title: Italians to America Passenger Data File, 1855-1900
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD45-NPN
-----------
Sabina Ramundo United States Italians to America Index
Name:
Sabina Ramundo
Event Type:
Immigration
Event Date:
23 Dec 1889
Event Place:
New York, New York, New York, United States
Gender:
Female
Age:
28
Birthplace:
Italy
Occupation:
Farmer
Ship Name:
Britannia
Birth Year (Estimated):
1861
Departure Port:
Marseilles & Naples
Literacy:
Unknown
Residence Place:
Castiglione
Destination Place:
NEW YORK
Transit or Travel Compartment:
Staying in the USA [Transit]; Steerage [Travel]
Affiliate Manifest ID:
00000356
Affiliate ARC Identifier:
1746097
Affiliate Publication Title: Italians to America Passenger Data File, 1855-1900
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD45-NR8
-----------------
abt possible arrival of Felice:
Felice Lolli United States Italians to America Index
Name:
Felice Lolli (Lalli?)
Event Type:
Immigration
Event Date:
03 Apr 1885
Event Place:
New York, New York, New York, United States
Gender:
Male
Age:
27
Birthplace:
Italy
Occupation:
Peasant
Ship Name:
Archimede
Birth Year (Estimated):
1858
Departure Port:
Palermo
Literacy:
Unknown
Destination Place:
NEW YORK
Transit or Travel Compartment:
Staying in the USA [Transit]; Steerage [Travel]
Affiliate Manifest ID:
00080643
Affiliate ARC Identifier:
1746097
Affiliate Publication Title: Italians to America Passenger Data File, 1855-1900
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD4F-QNV
--------------------
Sabina Ramundo
Italy, Births and Baptisms
Name:
Sabina Ramundo
Gender:
Female
Birth Date:
23 Dec 1859
Birthplace:
Fraine, Chieti, Italy
Father's Name:
Angelantonio Ramundo
Mother's Name:
Reginalda Stampone

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01223-6 , System Origin: Italy-EASy , GS Film number: 1217693 , Reference ID: yr 1859 rn 64
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XV1R-F4W

no pictures.. for to make a right search, it is better to try in Castiglione Messer Marino civil records by LDS microfilms
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library here you will find the Birth record of Pietro as a well the marriage record of Felice and Sabina, by that you can know the birthplace of spouses and if really Sabina was born in Fraine, you can try also in Fraine civil records
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library
hoping helpful,
best regards,
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WayneLalle
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby WayneLalle » 23 May 2015, 23:08

Suanj:
Thank you very much.
I have requested a copy of the records through Family Search (LDS Church site)
If that is not successful, I will let you and request your services to obtain the birth and marriage records.

Thank you.

Wayne Lalle

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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 24 May 2015, 07:08

Hi Wayne,
by LDS Church site you can search the LDS center in or near your residence town, and you can order and rent the Castiglione Messer Marino and Fraine civil records on microfilms ...
when the Center will receive the ordered microfilms .. it will let you know and you can make the search and to print the found records... that just for genealogical interest

and especially... to have the confirmation abt right data of your ancestors.

If you wish the civil certificates helpful for dual citizenship, the search in the microfilms is a basic first step, before of to write in the italian Communes for the certificates...

second my opinion, my search is ok... but must be verified and to try in the microfilms and no availables on line... otherwise all is easy...

but they must be ordered in a LDS center ...
so when you will find the right records ( on the Birth acts are the marriage note, so on Felice it is wrote that married at Sabina and viceversa, and you will find also the their marriage act and all data of groom and bride must match perfectly) you can print it..

instead if you wish the civil certificates helpfuls for dual citizenship, knowing that the records found are of your ancestors, so ...verified.... just in this case it is possible to make a request the civil certificates in the Communes... providing right data, because what they stated on the census maybe no right abt Birth year, Birth month etc... that is a normal error.. so better to know all right data... when you will have it you can request the civil certificates also by yourself, we can help you here, many members are ables here...
but the first step is to try in the microfilms ....
best,
suanj
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WayneLalle
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby WayneLalle » 03 Jul 2015, 18:18

Suanj:

I have reviewed microfilm received from Family Search but am unable to find Pietro Lalli's
birth certificate. By separate email send through your website I will foreward the information which I obtained and request your assistance in obtaining a copy of the birth certificate.

Thank you.

Wayne Lalle

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suanj
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Re: Searching for Place of Birth

Postby suanj » 03 Jul 2015, 18:45

Hi Wayne, but it need to know if Castiglione Messer Marino is the right birthplace... I will reply to your email, but I don't received at this time...
best,
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