Is this my ancestor?

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PurrfectMeow
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Is this my ancestor?

Postby PurrfectMeow » 20 May 2015, 13:57

This is my ancestor Franceso Favalaoro's birth record here: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 3.jpg.html

I've been trying to find his parents Angelo Favaloro and Angela Cardia marriage certificate with no luck. Looked from 1824-1841 and 1845-1850 I will do 1842-1844 next, I just found 1842 too blurry and 1843 very faded from water damage and 1844 seems to have no index. Also some of the writing from the years I did look through I've found difficult to read do to handwritting or blurriness from water damage, so maybe I overlooked it.

I think I found Franceso's mother Angela Cardia getting married in 1825 here http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0 but it doesn't look like to a favaloro? Granted I'm finding all the names quite difficult to read.

Can someone take a look at both records please and tell me if the 2 Angela Cardia's ages line up correctly? I am thinking maybe this could be mine marrying someone else before marrying my ancestor. If it is her would like to know what it says about her parents.I don't think Cardia was a very common surname so it should be her if ages line up, correct?

I also found a record of an angelo favaloro getting married in 1836 index here (number 50): http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0 but it doesn't look like that is to an angela cardia either. Granted can't read the name very well again. Can someone take a look at that one too and tell me if it could be mine marrying someone else before marrying my ancestor?

And also if I end up not finding my ancestors marriage record in lipari where is the next closest place I should start looking?

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Robin B Mc
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby Robin B Mc » 20 May 2015, 20:14

To me, it looks like Angela Cardia is 48 in that 1825 marriage record so it's highly unlikely to be the same Angela Cardia who is recorded as 38 in 1850.

As for Angelo, the 1850 birth record says he's 50, so he was born around 1800. The marriage record from 1836 says he's 30 so he was born around 1806. That could be the same person but without more evidence, it's impossible to say.

Since you're struggling to find their marriage record, I would recommend looking through other birth records to find other children they may have had. Once you've found their first born child, it will give you a better idea of when they married.

PurrfectMeow
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby PurrfectMeow » 20 May 2015, 20:56

Thank you Robin. I decided to take your advice. I decided to start with 1835, I think I may have gotten lucky, is this them in number 178? Having a hard time with this cursive http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... d=27593408 If it is them I know I need to look for earlier birth records to get more of an idea of when marriage took place. Although if that's them then this brings up a problem. If they married before 1835 then I am either not recognizing the record when I see it (hard to read alot of this handwritting and a lot of pages are ruined) or they married a town over. Or they got married before 1824, but given angela's age that seems unlikely.

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Robin B Mc
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby Robin B Mc » 20 May 2015, 21:50

That looks likely to be them - it says Angela is 25 and Angelo is 30. Although that puts Angelo's birth year off by 5 years, that's not unusual in my experience. That means the marriage record for Angelo in 1836 is not him, which means there's another Angelo Favaloro around the same age as your Angelo so you'll have to be careful not to mix them up.

PurrfectMeow
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby PurrfectMeow » 20 May 2015, 21:56

Thank you again. Do you think given the name of that child (looks like Angelo to me) that I have most likely found their first born? That's too bad on their being 2 of them around the same age. I guess I won't be able to go off birth record if I cannot find a marriage one. Any ideas on what towns to check if the marriage wasn't in lipari but a town over? I am guessing the birth records do not mention anything regarding parents birth place.

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Robin B Mc
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby Robin B Mc » 20 May 2015, 22:24

I just had a quick look at the 1834 marriages and found Angelo Favaloro and Angela Cardia, #32 in the index.

Here it is: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 8.jpg.html

That says Angelo is 31, his father is Giuseppe Favaloro, and his mother is Maria la Greca?

Angela is 23 and her father is Francesco Cardia, her mother is Rosa ? (can't make out the surname).

Also, it looks like the records for this town only go back to 1820 so you wouldn't be able to find their birth records anyway, since they were born before 1820. If the records exist but just aren't digitized, you could try ordering them by mail from the town hall. Otherwise, there are church records for this town on microfilm going back to the 16th century: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library
Now that you have the parents names, you should be able to find their baptism records fairly easily.

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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 20 May 2015, 22:42

Great catch Robin! The surname is Natoli - Rosa Natoli.
Angela :)

PurrfectMeow
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby PurrfectMeow » 20 May 2015, 22:53

Thank you very much! Dunno how I missed that. (from a glance at index page I probably thought name was something else as didn't look like favaloro to me) Thanks for the info on microfilms....16th century?! wow. Wouldn't have thought that possible without lots of money. I'll have to see about that. Never looked at microfilms before. Most of my research isn't to that point, yet. And thanks again for finding the record and for the birth records suggestion. It seems so obvious now, yet I hadn't thought to look for it.

edit: Thank you too Angela. Now I know why those Natoli names keep showing up in my ancestry dna results!

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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 20 May 2015, 23:04

PurrfectMeow wrote:
edit: Thank you too Angela. Now I know why those Natoli names keep showing up in my ancestry dna results!


Serious? That's very interesting about the dna results. Happy to help, Robin did the great work.
Angela :D

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Robin B Mc
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby Robin B Mc » 20 May 2015, 23:16

PurrfectMeow wrote:Thank you very much! Dunno how I missed that. (from a glance at index page I probably thought name was something else as didn't look like favaloro to me) Thanks for the info on microfilms....16th century?! wow. Wouldn't have thought that possible without lots of money. I'll have to see about that. Never looked at microfilms before. Most of my research isn't to that point, yet. And thanks again for finding the record and for the birth records suggestion. It seems so obvious now, yet I hadn't thought to look for it.


You're welcome, I'm glad to help.

As for microfilm, each rolls costs $7.50 for a short term loan, about a 3 month period. If you want to order an extended loan (it stays at your local Family History Center until it gets called elsewhere), it's $18.75. Considering there's a large year range covered on each roll, and there's only 6 rolls in total, even if you wound up ordering all of them it would only be $45 in total for the short term loan. Keep in mind that this would provide you with probably hundreds of records you might be looking for but you likely wouldn't want to order all 6 rolls at the same time. I would start by ordering the roll for Baptisms 1711-1825... again, that's a big year range so it should keep you busy for a while. You'll likely find Angelo's and Angela's baptisms, plus their parents baptisms, and their grandparents, and maybe even their great grandparents (assuming they didn't originate in another town). That's 12-28 records for $7.50 or $18.75 - your call but either way, that's good value in my experience. You may not be ready to delve into it just yet but eventually, I would strongly encourage it. Many towns don't have any church records available on microfilm at all so count yourself lucky that yours not only does, but has them going back so far!

edit: Thank you too Angela. Now I know why those Natoli names keep showing up in my ancestry dna results!


Interesting! I have yet to make any surname connections with my Italian DNA matches but the locales are definitely matching up.

PurrfectMeow
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby PurrfectMeow » 21 May 2015, 22:40

Robin B Mc wrote:
PurrfectMeow wrote:Thank you very much! Dunno how I missed that. (from a glance at index page I probably thought name was something else as didn't look like favaloro to me) Thanks for the info on microfilms....16th century?! wow. Wouldn't have thought that possible without lots of money. I'll have to see about that. Never looked at microfilms before. Most of my research isn't to that point, yet. And thanks again for finding the record and for the birth records suggestion. It seems so obvious now, yet I hadn't thought to look for it.


You're welcome, I'm glad to help.

As for microfilm, each rolls costs $7.50 for a short term loan, about a 3 month period. If you want to order an extended loan (it stays at your local Family History Center until it gets called elsewhere), it's $18.75. Considering there's a large year range covered on each roll, and there's only 6 rolls in total, even if you wound up ordering all of them it would only be $45 in total for the short term loan. Keep in mind that this would provide you with probably hundreds of records you might be looking for but you likely wouldn't want to order all 6 rolls at the same time. I would start by ordering the roll for Baptisms 1711-1825... again, that's a big year range so it should keep you busy for a while. You'll likely find Angelo's and Angela's baptisms, plus their parents baptisms, and their grandparents, and maybe even their great grandparents (assuming they didn't originate in another town). That's 12-28 records for $7.50 or $18.75 - your call but either way, that's good value in my experience. You may not be ready to delve into it just yet but eventually, I would strongly encourage it. Many towns don't have any church records available on microfilm at all so count yourself lucky that yours not only does, but has them going back so far!

edit: Thank you too Angela. Now I know why those Natoli names keep showing up in my ancestry dna results!


Interesting! I have yet to make any surname connections with my Italian DNA matches but the locales are definitely matching up.


Sounds like a very good deal. I think I still have some other lines to get back before I am gonna go the micorfilm route. That will sure keep me busy when I do. I am half italian and of that half 75% of it is from lipari. (The other 25% is from monte sacro near rome, which seems to have a great lack of online records).

As for the dna, I have 2 4th cousin matches with the surname natoli in their trees (both natoli's from lipari) and 3 more distant matches with the surname natoli. Actually, of the 4th cousin matches both share at least 1 other lipari surname in common with me. So I don't know if thats how I connect with them or not. Maybe they are both double 8th cousins or some such rather then fourth cousins. Because I don't see the connection other then surname and location.

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Robin B Mc
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Re: Is this my ancestor?

Postby Robin B Mc » 21 May 2015, 23:45

PurrfectMeow wrote:As for the dna, I have 2 4th cousin matches with the surname natoli in their trees (both natoli's from lipari) and 3 more distant matches with the surname natoli. Actually, of the 4th cousin matches both share at least 1 other lipari surname in common with me. So I don't know if thats how I connect with them or not. Maybe they are both double 8th cousins or some such rather then fourth cousins. Because I don't see the connection other then surname and location.


Yeah, you will likely share more than one pair of ancestors with them. In these small towns, I tend to assume that everyone with the same surname is probably related somehow, no matter how distantly. Also keep in mind the relationship calculator is just an estimate.


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