Advice on next steps

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Robin B Mc
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Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 00:11

My ancestor Agostino Majorano was born about 1780 in Pettorano sul Gizio and married in or before 1800 (probably in either Pettorano or Sulmona). He died in 1828 in Aquila (though he was living in Sulmona at the time).

The civil records for Pettorano start in 1809, so he was born and married before they begin. I have his death record and it names his father (Nunzio Majorano) but not his mother. To find his mother's name I'm guessing it would have to be from church records of his marriage or baptism? The church records for Pettorano aren't online, nor are they available on microfilm. Where would I write to for copies? And assuming it has to be in Italian, could anyone help with that?

The details are:

Agostino Majorano - looking for baptism and/or marriage record
b. abt. 1780 in Pettorano sul Gizio, L'Aquila, Abruzzo
m. Maria Nicola Bertoldi abt. 1799-1800 probably in Pettorano sul Gizio or Sulmona
d. 1828 in Aquila (living in Sulmona)

Thanks in advance.

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adelfio
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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby adelfio » 19 Jun 2015, 02:31

On your early civil records on the baptism side does it give a church

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 03:14

The trouble with that is the family moved to Sulmona around 1801 before the civil records began. But they had one child Pettorano and I think her marriage processetti has a copy of her baptism... this should be it: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 03:27

Actually, looking at that more closely, does it name Agostino's mother? I'm no good with Latin... I only just got the hang of the Italian records!

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby suanj » 19 Jun 2015, 10:03

I read: ... Augustino Majorano q.m (=quondam= late) Nuntii et Maria Parela ( or Parola)
............ so they was Agostino parents: Nunzio Majorano and Maria Parela or similar spell
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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby erudita74 » 19 Jun 2015, 13:37

Agostino's mother is Maria Paola of deceased Francesco Brittolla, so her surname is Brittolla, and Paola is her middle name spelled Paula in Latin. Also the child baptized in this record is Anna Antonia

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby adelfio » 19 Jun 2015, 14:03

Marriage promise of Anna Antonia Majorano daughter of Agostino and Maria Paola Brittolla

PG LINK TO RECORD
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 16:00

Thank you so much everyone, I guess I don't need to write for Agostino's baptism but would I be able to do so for his parents baptisms/marriage even though I don't have any dates for them?

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 18:04

Argh, I just realized Marty is right about Maria Paola being Anna Antonia's mother, not Agostino's mother... so back to the drawing board: does anyone know where to write for Agostino's baptism record and can help with writing a letter in Italian?

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 19:11

Also, I'm confused about the q.m symbol - if this means "late" or "deceased", it's saying that Maria Paola's father Francesco is deceased in 1800 but I have Francesco Bertoldi's death record from 1817 so he was still alive in 1800.

And why is Bertoldi sometimes written as Brittolla? I thought maybe Maria Brittolla and Maria Bertoldi might be different people and Agostino married twice but Anna's mother (Brittolla) is alive at the time of her marriage so she couldn't have died before the births of Anna's siblings whose mother is Bertoldi. Here's the marriage of Anna's sister who was born in 1802 saying her mother is Maria Nicola Bertoldi: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 5.jpg.html

I'm not looking at two different Agostino Majoranos, am I?

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby adelfio » 19 Jun 2015, 20:08

If you look at both the marriage processetti they are same Agostino Majoranos death record
1829
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

1830
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby Robin B Mc » 19 Jun 2015, 20:30

Good point, thanks.

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2015, 01:04

Robin
The date of the baptism of Anna Antonia was March 6, 1801 and, according to the extracted record, Maria Paola Brittolla's father, Francesco, was already deceased. The letter q with the m up in the air is the Latin abbreviation for the word quondam (which means "formerly" or "deceased." The info was copied from the book of baptisms for use for the marriage in 1830. Even though sometimes surnames in the Latin records vary in spelling, I personally find it hard to believe that the surnames Brittolla and Bertoldi belong to the same people.
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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2015, 14:40

Robin
I've been doing some research about the church in the baptism record for Anna in 1801. The church was San Dionisio, which was the Chiesa Madre in Pettorano at the time. In 1594, it became Sana Maria della Porta. There was a fire in 1694 and an earthquake in 1706 and the church was reconstructed starting in 1718 and ending in 1728. I gather that the church changed names again, as in the 1801 record, the parish of the baptism was San Dionisio. What I have read is that the church was eventually closed for worship due to structural damage. So you can write to the parish in the link below and see if the early records are still available and where they are housed. I will tell you though that, if they are available, you will have to send a hefty donation to the parish to have the parish priest or his clerk do the research for you.

http://www.diocesisulmona-valva.it/inde ... &Itemid=37

Here are some other links with Pettorano town photos which may interest you:

http://www.pettorano.com/pettorano-sul- ... hiese.html

http://www.viaggioinabruzzo.it/aq/petto ... _gizio.htm

I also noticed that with the allegati for the 1829 marriage of Maria Raffaele Anna Panfilia Majorano, there are images there that belong to a completely different marriage. I still can't say that the families are the same people despite the fact that the extracts for the death of Agostino fu Nunzio are identical. Those records were received from the town in which he died, and were hand copied by a clerk, so they are subject to error. I have occasionally found that allegati records contain extracts of records for individuals not related to the parties getting married. It's unfortunate that Agostino's wife's name does not appear in either of the extracts. Since people in those days were illiterate, if one of the copies was erroneously sent for a marriage, there was no way for the bride to know that the wrong record had been sent to the town where she was getting married. My only other thought is that possibly the town had double surnames at some point, and some of the descendants used one of the surnames and some used the other. I just don't know if this is an area of Italy where double surnames existed. As to the difference between Maria Paola and Maria Nicola, well, at baptism, many individuals were given multiple first names, so it's possible she was Maria Paola Nicola or Maria Nicola Paola and not all of those "first" names then appeared in the civil records. Without access to earlier church records, there is no way to know for sure.

I also see that Maria Nicola was still alive in 1848 when the daughter Maria Francesca Camilla married. Did you ever find a death record for Maria Nicola Bertoldi? Just curious as to the info on that record.

Erudita

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Re: Advice on next steps

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2015, 18:10

Robin
I saw on one of your posts that you hadn't located the death record of Agostino in Pettorano. I looked through those records and found that his death info was handwritten alongside another record. It seems he died in the city of L'Aquila and not in Pettorano. Here are the links. Unfortunately no info about his mother.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Erudita


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