Married twice? (to the same people)

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Anizio
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Married twice? (to the same people)

Postby Anizio » 03 Oct 2015, 18:59

Hi,

when I was in Supino in 2013 I obtained the church document for the marriage of two of my ancestors, Antonio Nalli and Francesco Fiaschetti, on January 1 1877. But the town had no record of a marriage in or around that year.

Now that I have their daughters birth record, it indicates that her birth was legitimized by her parents marriage on May 2 1889, making Antonio Nalli 30 at the time of the second marriage and 18 at the time of the first.

Does this sort of double marriage, or separation of church and civil marriage happen often?

It seems very strange to me, I have never encountered it before.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

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adelfio
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Re: Married twice? (to the same people)

Postby adelfio » 04 Oct 2015, 00:01

Yes sometime its only church when was the first child born? Normally the other way around civil first then church

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

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Anizio
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Re: Married twice? (to the same people)

Postby Anizio » 04 Oct 2015, 05:19

The first child I know of, my grandmother's grandmother, was born in 1880. After the first marriage. Strangely, her mother is not listed on the civil birth record. Only her father is listed. But a note on the side mentions her mother in context of her being legitimized by her parents marriage 9 years later.

I'll try to get the parents civil marriage record, maybe it will make more sense in that context.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

carubia
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Re: Married twice? (to the same people)

Postby carubia » 04 Oct 2015, 10:18

After 1865 (I would guess because of the conflict with the church over the Papal States) civil and religious marriage were separate in Italy. So a marriage that was performed by the church but not recorded civilly was not considered valid by the Italian government and any children born to that couple before the marriage was registered would not be "legitimate."

When a child was born, if the mother was legally (i.e., civilly) married, then her husband was automatically presumed to the father, but if she was not married then the father would only be listed on the birth record if he acknowledged paternity. Conversely, if an unmarried man presented his newborn infant, he would be recognized on the birth record as the father but the mother would not be listed unless she came forward to acknowledge maternity.

It sounds like first they married in a church but didn't marry civilly. Thus from the perspective of the government they were unmarried and when the father presented their first child shortly after her birth, the mother wasn't put on the record because she didn't show up too. Later they married civilly and their children were legitimized legally.


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