Help with tree correction

Are you looking for an Italian surname? Do you need more information about your family heritage?
This is the right place to start your genealogy search.
Anizio
Elite
Elite
Posts: 398
Joined: 12 Oct 2014, 22:37
Location: Canada

Help with tree correction

Postby Anizio » 04 Oct 2015, 05:41

Hello again! Thank you all for being so helpful, I know I have been posting a lot lately but its only because I have had so many breakthroughs.

Several years ago I found a tree on MyHeritage.com that included my Mencarelli ancestors.
Basically saying this:

Annunziata Mencarelli b. 1858 at Cerasa di San Costanzo (my confirmed ancestor)
daughter of Vincenzo Mencarelli, b. 1810 at Cerasa and Francesca Bacchiocca
son of Angelo Mencarelli, b. 1789 at Cerasa and Catterina Ciaschini
son of Pietro Mencarelli and Giovanna Zandri
etc. (it goes back)

Obviously I am always wary of relying on other people's records. Recently I was given digital copies of all of the records from Cerasa from the 1500s to 1940s, and I started fact checking because something just didn't feel right.

I confirmed everything, up to Angelo Mencarelli. His wife is right, but his birth date and parentage is questionable, so I need some help.

Problem 1) The first son of Angelo Mencarelli and Catterina Ciaschini was born in 1807, meaning Angelo would have been only 16 years old.

Problem 2) None of the marriage, birth, or death records mention Angelo's parents except perhaps one which seems to suggest either that Angelo's father was Nicola, or that Angelo's second name was Nicola. Its not clear: Figure 1

Problem 3) The only Angelo Mencarelli death I can find says Angelo was born in 1777. Granted, sometimes rounding occurs or people lose track, but 1777 to 1789 is a huge discrepancy. The only Angelo born in Cerasa is Angelo Mencarelli di Pietro in 1789: Figure 2

Solution? There is a person who has done extensive research on the area, documenting most people who lived or died in nearby towns. He has an Angelo Mencarelli, son of Niccola, born in 1777, wife and death unknown, born another frazione of San Costanzo called Stacciola: Figure 3

So, is the MyHeritage Mencarelli tree wrong as I suspect?
Is this other Angelo Mencarelli who seems to solve all the errors the correct person?

I know this is a long post but I appreciate your help.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

User avatar
liviomoreno
Master
Master
Posts: 5419
Joined: 13 Feb 2004, 00:00
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Help with tree correction

Postby liviomoreno » 04 Oct 2015, 09:23

Figure 1 states that Fortunato, aged 21 years and 10 months, son of Angelo Nicola Mencharelli and Caterina Ciaschini, died on Nov 4 1816.

carubia
Master
Master
Posts: 916
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 12:13
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Help with tree correction

Postby carubia » 04 Oct 2015, 12:04

I see 1 year 10 months for Fortunato's age ("anni unius et mensium decem").

If Angelo Mencarelli was born in 1789 then he would've been about 18 in 1807, not 16. Still young for a man to be having a child but not out of the question.

It would not be at all unusual for a man who was only 53 to have his age reported as "about 65" on his death record in 1842. The ages were often really off for death records of older people in the 1st half of the 19th c., at least in Sicily where I do my research. But in this case if your description of the contents of the records is accurate then it really does look like you have 2 different Angelos, one with father Pietro and the other with Nicola.

BTW, where in these Latin records is the father of either Angelo listed?

User avatar
liviomoreno
Master
Master
Posts: 5419
Joined: 13 Feb 2004, 00:00
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Help with tree correction

Postby liviomoreno » 04 Oct 2015, 12:10

carubia wrote:I see 1 year 10 months for Fortunato's age ("anni unius et mensium decem").

Agree :cry:

Anizio
Elite
Elite
Posts: 398
Joined: 12 Oct 2014, 22:37
Location: Canada

Re: Help with tree correction

Postby Anizio » 06 Oct 2015, 05:37

carubia wrote:I see 1 year 10 months for Fortunato's age ("anni unius et mensium decem").

BTW, where in these Latin records is the father of either Angelo listed?


In latin records, the name of the father is usually indicated with what would look like Italian plural. Ie. Antonio Domenici means Italian son of Domenico.

In this case, on Fortunato's death it says Angeli Nicolai.

But to clarify I found Fortunato's birth record 1 year and 10 months earlier and it says Angelo is the son of Nicola. In other words, Pietro is not the father for sure.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information

Colosiuemmtv
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 11:40
Location: maxbet
Contact:

Re: Help with tree correction

Postby Colosiuemmtv » 28 Oct 2015, 04:31

I read this to the Eฉa I feel very handy access to its benefits


Return to “Italian Genealogy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests