Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

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dfdemar
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Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 13 Oct 2015, 17:10

Hi all,

I am in the process of trying to obtain Italian citizenship through my paternal great grandfather.

My paternal great grandparents were from Italy and I am trying to obtain their birth and marriage certificates. All the information I have about them comes from their naturalization records and my great grandmother's US death certificate (still waiting to receive my great grandfather's death certificate). I had a genealogist in Italy try to find these records for me and he recently emailed me copies of them. Here is the information I gave him:

Giuseppe De Mare:
Born: 13 April 1881 in Cirò

Rosa Esposito
Born: 16 February 1885/6 or 22 February 1885/6
Father: Angelo Esposito
Mother: Theresa Lombardo

They were both married in Italy and had a daughter named Maria born 8 July 1905 in Cirò.

Since I don't have my great grandfather's death certificate yet I don't know his parents' names and thus don't have anything to compare his Italian documents to yet. However my great grandmother's Italian birth certificate has major discrepancies with the info I have:

Rosina Carmine Esposito
Born: 23 January 1884
Father: Lorenzo Esposito
Mother: Teresa Seminara

Are these "normal" discrepancies in her birthday and parents' names that can be explained or is it possible that I have the wrong people?

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PippoM
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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby PippoM » 14 Oct 2015, 08:05

My opinion is that you can't be sure they are the same person. I'd say more: they probably are two distinct persons. Did you get their marriage certificate?
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby jennabet » 14 Oct 2015, 09:39

It sounds like a different family to me. Esposito is a common name. Do you know the first names of any of your great grand-mother's siblings? Providing names of siblings is often helpful in tracking down the right family when the sur name is common.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 14:00

I do not know the names of any of their siblings. The only thing I know about their family in Italy is that they had a daughter named Maria who was born in Italy before they emigrated to the United States.

The genealogist was also able to get the marriage certificate but it doesn't contain any information aside from my great-grandparents' names and the date they were married.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby PippoM » 14 Oct 2015, 15:15

Their marriage record should mention parents' names.
So, if your "genealogist" provided you with just a certificate (is it "modern"? I mean, is it a copy of the original record, or a typed sheet with data taken from the original?), you should request an "estratto integrale dell'atto di matrimonio", to get the full record.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 15:45

The marriage certificate is typed with data taken from the original. The birth certificates are also typed and each of them has a reference to the marriage with the date that matches the marriage certificate.

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liviomoreno
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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby liviomoreno » 14 Oct 2015, 16:05

There is no doubt that

Rosa Esposito
Born: 16 February 1885/6 or 22 February 1885/6
Father: Angelo Esposito
Mother: Theresa Lombardo


and

Rosina Carmine Esposito
Born: 23 January 1884
Father: Lorenzo Esposito
Mother: Teresa Seminara


are two different persons

If you post the documents you have we can better help

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 16:26

Here is what I have. Giuseppe's birthday is only a few days off from the info I have (13 April 1881 vs 20 April 1881) but I need his death certificate to know if his parents' names match up.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby liviomoreno » 14 Oct 2015, 16:40

Where did you get the info about
Rosa Esposito
Born: 16 February 1885/6 or 22 February 1885/6
Father: Angelo Esposito
Mother: Theresa Lombardo
?

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby liviomoreno » 14 Oct 2015, 16:44

Looking at the documents you posted it is very likely that the two birth certificates are related to the same persons in the marriage certificate. To be 100% you should request a "Copia integrale dell'atto di matrimonio" theat will show you also the names of the parents.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 16:56

I got Rosa's birth dates from my great grandparents' naturalization form and from her death certificate. I got her parents names from her death certificate.

I have no doubt the birth and marriage certificates are related to the same persons. What I am concerned about is if they are related to me!

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby liviomoreno » 14 Oct 2015, 17:13

Well I would suggest that you request Rosa's birth record (Copia integrale dell'atto di nascita), if you are lucky it should have an annotation with her marriage date...

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 17:28

The birth documents I posted do have the marriage annotation on them.

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby liviomoreno » 14 Oct 2015, 17:34

yeah, but you need to check the marriage date of the Rosa daughter of Angelo

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Re: Big discrepancies between birth and death certificates

Postby dfdemar » 14 Oct 2015, 19:35

Any chance these records exist online? I found the birth records for Cirò on Family Search but they only go up to 1865 and I can't view any of them because I am not a supporter.


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