re:parish record research in italy

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mezzogiorno62
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re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 31 Dec 2015, 16:04

in my 20 years of researching my paternal italian ancestors i've probably sent at least 100 letters of inquiry,written in reasonably literate italian,and several times accompanied by small donations. to various parishes.this includes both the local parishes of interest(grandfather luogosano avellino and grandmother barcellona pg messina) and the dioceses as well in both avellino and messina.and this for records i'm not even certain existed there but had to try. to date i've recieved exactly 2 records.one from each. my 2nd great grandparents marriage in 1803 in lapio avellino and my paternal grandmothers baptism in 1883 in barcellona pg messina. thats a terrible return considering the many letters of inquiry as well as donations i've sent in 20 years. just wondering if other researchers like myself have had such a bad time of it regarding accessing parish records. any suggestions as to how to make this more rewarding would be most welcome,although i don't see how. but italian research is a never ending lesson in frustration and dead ends. a major oproblem is parish records are absolutely essential in researching ancestors born or married before 1809 in mainland italy or 1820 in sicily. this is all we have to work with. lds has filmed very few of the parish records in the areas of my research. and although most of sicily is available in digitized collections at lds(i no longer order film due to costs and other issues)most of avellino isn't available at present.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby Primo Mattino » 31 Dec 2015, 19:40

The past four years I have been busy digitizing the parishrecords untill 1920 of the diocese of Reggio Calabria. The work is almost finished, just 8 parishes to go yet. The pictures are now in the archive of the diocese for everybody free to consultate.
I think the only solution for your (and everbody else's) problem is that volunteers do the same thing in the other dioceses.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 31 Dec 2015, 21:29

by the time that happens i'll be gone. i'm 66 now. great for someone young just starting out-but for me not much good. not going to happen in my lifetime.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby Primo Mattino » 02 Jan 2016, 14:41

I am of the same age so I understand what you feel. I have one tip that might help you a little bit. The Archivio Diocesano di Messina is since a couple of months under the care of an able and enthousiastic woman called Erika Gitto. You might want to write or call her archiviostoricodiocesano @ diocesimessina.it (without the spaces of course) or 0039906684336 (from 9.00 til 13.00).

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby liviomoreno » 02 Jan 2016, 16:29

Primo Mattino wrote:I am of the same age so I understand what you feel. I have one tip that might help you a little bit. The Archivio Diocesano di Messina is since a couple of months under the care of an able and enthousiastic woman called Erika Gitto. You might want to write or call her archiviostoricodiocesano @ diocesimessina.it (without the spaces of course) or 00390906684336 (from 9.00 til 13.00).

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Jan 2016, 18:01

thanks. i appreciate that. i'll check it out. my pidgin italian isn't so good so i'm hoping we can correspond in english.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby MSpinella » 02 Jan 2016, 22:15

mezzogiorno62 wrote:in my 20 years of researching my paternal italian ancestors i've probably sent at least 100 letters of inquiry,written in reasonably literate italian,and several times accompanied by small donations. to various parishes.this includes both the local parishes of interest(grandfather luogosano avellino and grandmother barcellona pg messina) and the dioceses as well in both avellino and messina.and this for records i'm not even certain existed there but had to try. to date i've recieved exactly 2 records.one from each. my 2nd great grandparents marriage in 1803 in lapio avellino and my paternal grandmothers baptism in 1883 in barcellona pg messina. thats a terrible return considering the many letters of inquiry as well as donations i've sent in 20 years. just wondering if other researchers like myself have had such a bad time of it regarding accessing parish records. any suggestions as to how to make this more rewarding would be most welcome,although i don't see how. but italian research is a never ending lesson in frustration and dead ends. a major oproblem is parish records are absolutely essential in researching ancestors born or married before 1809 in mainland italy or 1820 in sicily. this is all we have to work with. lds has filmed very few of the parish records in the areas of my research. and although most of sicily is available in digitized collections at lds(i no longer order film due to costs and other issues)most of avellino isn't available at present.


Were you not able to find Parish records for Pozzo di Gotto on LDS? I'm trying to locate those too. How would I search on Family Search for parish records for Sant'Agata di Militello, Messina? So far in my search I've relied only on civil records but I need to go earlier than 1820. I will be visiting Sicily in March and was hoping to find the churches my ancestors attended.

Thanks,
Mary

Spinella/Bennardo/Lupica/Pedala'/Cambria/Buda/Cali'/Tarantello/Barresi/Mollica/Armaro/Genovese
SANT'AGATA DI MILITELLO, MILITELLO DI ROSMARINO, BARCELONA POZZO DI GOTTO

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Jan 2016, 22:24

no idea. not many parish records available at lds. good luck

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby MSpinella » 02 Jan 2016, 22:30

mezzogiorno62 wrote:no idea. not many parish records available at lds. good luck


Thanks, I just found all the record collections for Italy and nothing for Messina :(
Mary

Spinella/Bennardo/Lupica/Pedala'/Cambria/Buda/Cali'/Tarantello/Barresi/Mollica/Armaro/Genovese
SANT'AGATA DI MILITELLO, MILITELLO DI ROSMARINO, BARCELONA POZZO DI GOTTO

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Jan 2016, 22:39

messina has all the records available-both for film loan and in the free digital collections. all the civil records that is. messina is one of the best areas for digitized collections. barcellona messina is where my paternal grandmother originated. my paternal grandfather was from luogosano in avellino. virtually nothing there. the films are available but not much for digitized collections.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby MSpinella » 02 Jan 2016, 22:54

mezzogiorno62 wrote:messina has all the records available-both for film loan and in the free digital collections. all the civil records that is. messina is one of the best areas for digitized collections. barcellona messina is where my paternal grandmother originated. my paternal grandfather was from luogosano in avellino. virtually nothing there. the films are available but not much for digitized collections.


Yes, all the civil records. The problem is that I'm looking for birth records of my 2nd great grandparents from Pozzo di Gotto born around 1810. I have their daughter's birth record from Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto born in 1836, shortly after the 2 towns merged. I didn't see any collections of parish records for any of the communes in Messina, maybe I was searching correctly? I'm researching 3 communes in Messina. What surnames are you researching in Barcellona? I'm looking for Spinella, Cambria, Tarantello, Genovese, Barresi.
Mary

Spinella/Bennardo/Lupica/Pedala'/Cambria/Buda/Cali'/Tarantello/Barresi/Mollica/Armaro/Genovese
SANT'AGATA DI MILITELLO, MILITELLO DI ROSMARINO, BARCELONA POZZO DI GOTTO

mezzogiorno62
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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby mezzogiorno62 » 02 Jan 2016, 23:35

my paternal grandmother was born of unknown parents-"ignoti genitori" this is a very common problem in italian genealogy-and very common in sicily in particular. as children born of unknown parents or illegitimate its almost impossible to find the natural parents. you must have run into this problem as its so common. my grandmother was informally adopted by her wetnurse,who was the one who registered her birth with the civil office. my grandmother was given the last name costante but that wasnt the surname of the birth father.i'm trying to locate a possible marriage for her adoptive parents but i don't think they ever married as i checked all the marriage records for barcellona and many other towns in the area. and if the parents of a child married in the church but not in the civil office the child could still be considered illegitimate. customs in italy,paricularly in the south and sicily were very rigid. on the other hand,i found the birth records for my paternal grandfathers parents as well as their marriage and deaths. go figure. the only dead end with my grandfathers lines is that civil records only go back to 1809 and going further back requires parish records,which are very hard to access. very little at lds and they rarely respond to written requests. in sicily civil records only go back to 1820. before that you have to rely on parish records. my circumstances are a lot different from yours.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby Italysearcher » 04 Jan 2016, 10:07

Most parishes and Diocese I deal with in the area of Frosinone and Rome will not permit records to be digitized and put on line. I hope that Primo Mattino has the right permissions if he plans to put them on line although it sounds like he has done them for the Diocese which means you still have to to go in person to consult.
Ann Tatangelo
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ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby Primo Mattino » 04 Jan 2016, 12:17

I do not intend to put them online. I don't know wat the price would be for 3TB of webspace :) I suggested it to the principal of the archive though, but she said that it to soon yet both mentally and financially.
But at least we depent no longer on the whims and caprices of local priests. And right now the situation is like this that everyone who sends an email to the Archivio Diocesano di Reggio Calabria receives a fast answer and the requests are taken seriously and the researches are done with care. The situation described by Mezzogiorno62 of hundreds of letters being sent with only 2 answers is not possible any longer as far as concerned for the diocese of Reggio Calabria.

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Re: re:parish record research in italy

Postby Italysearcher » 06 Jan 2016, 11:59

I am surprised they actually do the research. The Dioceses I deal with will do look ups, but if there are no indexes they simply don't have the time if no date is supplied.
Ann Tatangelo
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ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505


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