Laudani + Zappalá (was Wrong Names, Places + Surnames)

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Laudani + Zappalá (was Wrong Names, Places + Surnames)

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 11:02

Note: I've changed the title of this, in the case that anyone who is related to me (or looking for information) can more easily notice it.

Ok, i've come to my own conclusion, but I want more input to just double check myself, with some of the records.

This is how it goes, as per what I was told:

My great great grandfather, Carmelo Laudani immigrated from Caccamo, Sicily (near Palermo) to Boston / Lawrence, MA. My great great grandmother, Concetta Zappala, immigrated from Trecastagni, Sicily (smack near Mt. Etna) to Boston / Lawrence, MA. Concetta ran off from the family and got married (no indication of where / when, although her first child was in 1907).

What I found:

A. Census Records in Boston of Carmelo and Concetta in Lawrence, MA in 1910.
B. An immigration record of Concetta arriving in Boston in 1905, but from Pedara, which is a town over from Trecastagni.
C. An immigration record of Carmelo Laudani coming to Boston in 1905, also, with the proper age of him, but from "Vedano" even though it indicates him as Southern Italian.
D. No birth record of Carmelo Laudani in Caccamo, Sicily.
E. No birth record of Carmelo Laudani from Trecastagni, Sicily.
F. A birth record from Pedara finding a "Concetta Zappalá" within the proper window of time (within a year) of when other records consider her to be born.
F. On this record, she is noted as having married a "Alfio Laudani" in 1906.
G. The immigration record of Concetta has her arriving with a sister Rosa (which matches my records) and an older brother Matteo.

So, putting this all together, is it fair to presume:

1. Concetta was from Pedara, not Trecastagni (one town over).
2. Carmelo Laudani was not from Caccamo, but from around Pedara, and they ran off to America, although not together)
3. Carmelo Laudani was not Carmelo, but born "Alfio."
4. They both married in America, after arriving there.
5. Their names Laudani and Zappalá aren't that common, so these close matches are likely true.

I just want to make sure my logical presumptions based on circumstantial facts and error make this add up.

Thanks,

J

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby mfjp » 15 Oct 2005, 11:22

What are the birth years for both? When I look at this manifest, I can easliy read the name Laudani...

There are a few more manifests like this "Landani" worth checking out...

http://ellisisland.org/search/shipManif ... 2013080276

Here is an example...

First Name: Alfio
Last Name: Landani
Ethnicity: Italy South
Last Place of Residence: Biancavilla
Date of Arrival: Jun 27, 1907
Age at Arrival:  28y    Gender:  M    Marital Status:  M  
Ship of Travel: Lazio
Port of Departure: Napoli
Manifest Line Number: 0006

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby mfjp » 15 Oct 2005, 12:15

At times, those "n's and "u's" can look similar...

Here is another example of an Alfio Landani or Laudani... opinions needed...

(This is an Ellis Island mis-link...)

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9766/laudani5vv.jpg

First Name: Alfio
Last Name: Landani
Ethnicity: Italian, South Italian
Last Place of Residence: Biancavilla
Date of Arrival: Oct 16, 1905
Age at Arrival:  26y 1m    Gender:  M    Marital Status:  M  
Ship of Travel: Algeria (1891)
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0019

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby suanj » 15 Oct 2005, 15:05

Hi: on Concetta ship's manifest are that the first name is M. Concetta aka Maria Concetta .... and as marital status are single.. no widow.... last residence Pedara... however are an Alfio Laudani, age 24 in January 16 1906 date of arrival, that came in USA, port of arrival Boston, port of departure naples, coming from Pedara, final destination Lawrence MA, joining Gaetano Pappalardo uncle in Lawrence, in travel with Maria and Alfio NICOLOSI, and with Agata ABATE also from Pedara, and someother...


Name: Alfio Landain ( LAUDANI)
Arrival Date: 28 Jan 1906
Age: 24 years
Estimated Birth Year: 1882
Gender: Male
Ethnic Background: Italian (South)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Ship Name: Romanic
Port of Arrival: Boston, Massachusetts
Friend's Name: Gaetano Pappalardo
Last Residence: Italy
Microfilm Roll Number: 90
hoping helpful.. regards, suanj
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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby mfjp » 15 Oct 2005, 19:34

I think he kept his name as Alfio.

Here is a census record of interest... would this be them?...

1920 Census -
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2811/1920laud1sk.jpg
Name: Alfio Laudan (son)
Age: 4 years 
Estimated birth year: abt 1916
Birthplace: Massachusetts
Race: White
Home in 1920: Lawrence Ward 2, Essex, Massachusetts
Sex: Male
Marital status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Son
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Image: 1073

Image Source: Year: 1920; Census Place: Lawrence Ward 2, Essex, Massachusetts; Roll: T625_691; Page: 15A; Enumeration District: 100; Image: 1073.

Best to research this further once you give us the years of birth...

mfjp

 

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby brujaojos » 15 Oct 2005, 20:33

john_dominic wrote:)

1. Concetta was from Pedara, not Trecastagni (one town over).
2. Carmelo Laudani was not from Caccamo, but from around Pedara, and they ran off to America, although not together)
3. Carmelo Laudani was not Carmelo, but born "Alfio."
4. They both married in America, after arriving there.
5. Their names Laudani and Zappalá aren't that common, so these close matches are likely true.

J


Hi John,

Do you have the Marriage Application from Boston for Concetta? The Application could be a big clue for you. It would confirm the Birth Act you found as well as if the spouse went by Alfio or Carmelo.

Hope this helps,
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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 20:47

Ok, here's the exact data you are looking for:

1. Concetta Zappalá's Birth Record (10 Jan 1887, Pedara, Catania, Sicily, Italy)

Image

2. Concetta Zappalá's Passenger Manifest (Arrived 02 Jan 1905 on the Ship Canopic in Boston, from Napoli):

Image

3. Carmelo Laudani's Passenger Manifest (Arrived 02 Sep 1905 on the Ship Germania in NYC, Ellis Island from Napoli)

Image

4. The Laudani Family's Census Record in Lawrence, MA in 1910 (including my great grandmother Veronica who passed away at the age of 90 just a few years back):

Page 1:

Image

Page 2:

Image

5. Pedara, Catania, Sicily, Italy (Note how close it is to Trecastagni):

Image

Image

Thoughts?

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 20:52

brujaojos wrote:
john_dominic wrote:)

1. Concetta was from Pedara, not Trecastagni (one town over).
2. Carmelo Laudani was not from Caccamo, but from around Pedara, and they ran off to America, although not together)
3. Carmelo Laudani was not Carmelo, but born "Alfio."
4. They both married in America, after arriving there.
5. Their names Laudani and Zappalá aren't that common, so these close matches are likely true.

J


Hi John,

Do you have the Marriage Application from Boston for Concetta? The Application could be a big clue for you. It would confirm the Birth Act you found as well as if the spouse went by Alfio or Carmelo.

Hope this helps,
Trish


No, Vital Records only begin in 1911 in Massachusetts, and this would have been in 1906:

http://www.vitalchek.com/provider_overv ... r_id=15021

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby suanj » 15 Oct 2005, 21:05

well,
-seems that the right name is Carmelo and no Alfio..
-the ship's record say that joining to Giuseppe DI DIO cousin, and also Giovanni BONANNO from Pedara, joining to same cousin in Boston: Giuseppe DI DIO...this surname can are in your family tree... you know?

-the Concetta birthact... could be she or no, because also if in USA this names are rare... in Italy no, and for this cause are necessary to know the relative's names and or birthdate....
personally I think that is better if you can find the marriage act in USA, this before to start the search in Italy...
all data let me understand that really coming from Pedara, also Carmelo, because "VEDANO or VEDARO" are PEDARA mistaken...
the problem is the Concetta birthact.... as she can marry Alfio in 11 Jan 1906, in pedara common, if already Concetta was in USA? My opinion is that is better to ask the Family certificate of Alfio Zappalà, father of Concetta.... if in this document you found MATTEO, ROSA siblings, well are right, otherwise.....
regards, suanj
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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 21:14

suanj wrote:well,
-seems that the right name is Carmelo and no Alfio..
-the ship's record say that joining to Giuseppe DI DIO cousin, and also Giovanni BONANNO from Pedara, joining to same cousin in Boston: Giuseppe DI DIO...this surname can are in your family tree... you know?

-the Concetta birthact... could be she or no, because also if in USA this names are rare... in Italy no, and for this cause are necessary to know the relative's names and or birthdate....
personally I think that is better if you can find the marriage act in USA, this before to start the search in Italy...
all data let me understand that really coming from Pedara, also Carmelo, because "VEDANO or VEDARO" are PEDARA mistaken...
the problem is the Concetta birthact.... as she can marry Alfio in 11 Jan 1906, in pedara common, if already Concetta was in USA? My opinion is that is better to ask the Family certificate of Alfio Zappalà, father of Concetta.... if in this document you found MATTEO, ROSA siblings, well are right, otherwise.....
regards, suanj


But, what about the Marriage to Alfio Laudani, which was indicated at the bottom of Concetta's birth record?

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 21:18

suanj wrote:well,
-seems that the right name is Carmelo and no Alfio..
-the ship's record say that joining to Giuseppe DI DIO cousin, and also Giovanni BONANNO from Pedara, joining to same cousin in Boston: Giuseppe DI DIO...this surname can are in your family tree... you know?

-the Concetta birthact... could be she or no, because also if in USA this names are rare... in Italy no, and for this cause are necessary to know the relative's names and or birthdate....
personally I think that is better if you can find the marriage act in USA, this before to start the search in Italy...
all data let me understand that really coming from Pedara, also Carmelo, because "VEDANO or VEDARO" are PEDARA mistaken...
the problem is the Concetta birthact.... as she can marry Alfio in 11 Jan 1906, in pedara common, if already Concetta was in USA? My opinion is that is better to ask the Family certificate of Alfio Zappalà, father of Concetta.... if in this document you found MATTEO, ROSA siblings, well are right, otherwise.....
regards, suanj


Oh, and supposedly Concetta was the 7th girl in her family, so I have no doubt that the Bonnano's and Di Dio's are families which her sisters married into.

I will address them (and now, if it necessitates it), but my original approach was to find parents and parents of parents, and trace the tree backwards, first. And, then (later) to go sideways to get sibilings, and then (even later) to trace it down through the sibilings branches.

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby brujaojos » 15 Oct 2005, 21:48

[quote="brujaojos
Hi John,

Do you have the Marriage Application from Boston for Concetta? The Application could be a big clue for you. It would confirm the Birth Act you found as well as if the spouse went by Alfio or Carmelo.

Hope this helps,
Trish[/quote]

No, Vital Records only begin in 1911 in Massachusetts, and this would have been in 1906:

http://www.vitalchek.com/provider_overv ... r_id=15021[/quote]

Hi John,

Vital Records for Massachusetts are as follows,

Years Available
Vital Records have been registered in Massachusetts since 1635. Statewide collection began in 1841. Records for events that occurred from 1841-1910 are available at the State Archives (617) 727-2816. Earlier records may be available at the City or Town of Occurrence.

Here is the link where I got the information from.
http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/rvr/vrrsrch.htm

I would try to contact the County first for you might be able to get there for much cheaper.

Hope this helps,
Trish
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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby suanj » 15 Oct 2005, 22:12

Hi: I'm not sure that the birthact that you have is birthact of YOUR Concetta... and because married to Alfio Laudani, well,

now you can ask the certificate of family ( stato di famiglia) of Concetta and Alfio married in Pedara the 11 jan 1906..
-in this document you can descover the truth: if this Concetta and this Alfio had children in Pedara, well sure not your ancestors..
obviously and also as I think...

-this surnames are very diffused, and especially in the past... and also the first names are very usual sicilian first names...

-more about Carmelo ship's manifest.. are wrote CARMELO (as from passport), and also on Census are wrote Carmelo... your perplexity born from Concetta birthrecord and marriage in Italy record... but you cannot be sure that this is YOUR Concetta ... you must know the exact birthdate from marriage act, as Trish advice you, and most probable you can find also name of father and of mother... and personally I think that the birthrecord that you have is no of your ancestor...
suanj

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 22:42

suanj wrote:Hi: I'm not sure that the birthact that you have is birthact of YOUR Concetta... and because married to Alfio Laudani, well,

now you can ask the certificate of family ( stato di famiglia) of Concetta and Alfio married in Pedara the 11 jan 1906..
-in this document you can descover the truth: if this Concetta and this Alfio had children in Pedara, well sure not your ancestors..
obviously and also as I think...

-this surnames are very diffused, and especially in the past... and also the first names are very usual sicilian first names...

-more about Carmelo ship's manifest.. are wrote CARMELO (as from passport), and also on Census are wrote Carmelo... your perplexity born from Concetta birthrecord and marriage in Italy record... but you cannot be sure that this is YOUR Concetta ... you must know the exact birthdate from marriage act, as Trish advice you, and most probable you can find also name of father and of mother... and personally I think that the birthrecord that you have is no of your ancestor...
suanj

....


Well,

- The birth record does match up with the Census Birth Year
- The birth record does match up with the Passenger Manifest Birth Year
- There are NO records of a "Concetta Zappala" being born in Trecastagni +-3 years of that birth year (I've already researched that)
- The marriage date does correspond to being before Veronica was born, and in an ideal time (roughly a year before, as usually happened back then).

Not to mention, what are the odds of ANOTHER Concetta Zappala marrying a Laudani, being born in the exact same year, in a town 1KM away from her?

Thoughts on that?

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Re: Wrong names, Wrong locations and surnames

Postby john_dominic » 15 Oct 2005, 22:44

brujaojos wrote:Hi John,

Vital Records for Massachusetts are as follows,

Years Available
Vital Records have been registered in Massachusetts since 1635. Statewide collection began in 1841. Records for events that occurred from 1841-1910 are available at the State Archives (617) 727-2816. Earlier records may be available at the City or Town of Occurrence.

Here is the link where I got the information from.
http://www.mass.gov/dph/bhsre/rvr/vrrsrch.htm

I would try to contact the County first for you might be able to get there for much cheaper.

Hope this helps,
Trish


That's why I was holding out. The state archives are going to be a nightmare to research from Chicago.

I guess I can try the county.

Thanks!


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