marriage record double vision

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kencwalker
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marriage record double vision

Postby kencwalker » 19 Jul 2016, 16:24

Recently there was a message thread about marriages between spouses with the same last name. I see this occasionally in my ancestor's small towns. I discovered a variation on that theme while working on marriage records in Cavaglio: 2 almost identical marriage records (on the same day!). Except for the bride's mother, only the first name changed for each spouse/parent entry (spouses from 4 different families).
Marriage 1:
Groom 1 & padre cognome: Calligari
Groom 1 madre cognome: Ubertini
Wife 1 & padre cognome: Cantoia
Wife 1 madre cognome: Boriolo

Marriage 2:
Groom 2 & padre cognome: Calligari
Groom 2 madre cognome: Ubertini
Wife 2 & padre cognome: Cantoia
Wife 2 madre cognome: Demarchi

At first I thought I made a mistake, and had to double check my notes vs the records.
What are the odds? :)
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

mjclayton1
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Re: marriage record double vision

Postby mjclayton1 » 19 Jul 2016, 18:16

Hi, Ken-

I would have to look at my girlfriend's Tree closely in this regard, but she probably has the same phenomenon at least a time or two herself. If nothing else, this is perhaps a simple function of a few families living in small, isolated communities that probably didn't have that many "choices" in terms of marriage opportunities outside the greater family construct. Also, sure seems like this (intra-family marriage) was more socially acceptable a couple hundred years ago. With mortality rates so high there always seemed to be a push to have numerous children. Marrying cousins therefore seemed fairly commonplace. Just my (largely uninformed) $0.02 there.

Mark

kencwalker
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Re: marriage record double vision

Postby kencwalker » 20 Jul 2016, 16:19

mjclayton1 wrote:If nothing else, this is perhaps a simple function of a few families living in small, isolated communities that probably didn't have that many "choices" in terms of marriage opportunities outside the greater family construct.

Certainly some if it's the limited number of family names in these small towns. I bet 10 family names represent more than 90% of the people in Cavaglio; and they use a limited number of first names (maybe 10 for each gender).
mjclayton1 wrote:Also, sure seems like this (intra-family marriage) was more socially acceptable a couple hundred years ago... Marrying cousins therefore seemed fairly commonplace.

With the common family names, it "appears" they are marrying cousins, but to what degree is unknown here. I have not been able to establish that the parents are siblings, so likely they are NOT first cousins. If I had unlimited time, and access to the records, I'd be tempted to build a "comune" family tree to figure it out. We're only talking about 2,000 people over 2 generations. :)
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

sacesta
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Re: marriage record double vision

Postby sacesta » 21 Jul 2016, 02:58

kencwalker wrote:
mjclayton1 wrote:If nothing else, this is perhaps a simple function of a few families living in small, isolated communities that probably didn't have that many "choices" in terms of marriage opportunities outside the greater family construct.

Certainly some if it's the limited number of family names in these small towns. I bet 10 family names represent more than 90% of the people in Cavaglio; and they use a limited number of first names (maybe 10 for each gender).



mjclayton1 wrote:Also, sure seems like this (intra-family marriage) was more socially acceptable a couple hundred years ago... Marrying cousins therefore seemed fairly commonplace.

With the common family names, it "appears" they are marrying cousins, but to what degree is unknown here. I have not been able to establish that the parents are siblings, so likely they are NOT first cousins. If I had unlimited time, and access to the records, I'd be tempted to build a "comune" family tree to figure it out. We're only talking about 2,000 people over 2 generations. :)
-Ken


Wow, 10 surnames! And I thought Calatafimi was small. There seem to be maybe 4 or 5 dozen surnames dominant there.

Ha! I've thought the same thing about building a communal family tree for Calatafimi, Ken. It would be interesting to see how the entire comune is related. Unfortunately, my local FHC is open for very limited hours. I usually manage to get 3 hours in each Wednesday morning. I go in armed with a list of records I'm looking for including my expectations of where to find them, but with such limited time I'm rushed. Now, it seems I may be hitting a wall in Calatafimi. Up to the sixth generation, everyone on my father's side was baptized and married in the same church in Calatafimi. Except for one couple, it seems that all remaining couples in the seventh generation were baptized and married elsewhere. I have no idea where.
Steve
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

kencwalker
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Re: marriage record double vision

Postby kencwalker » 21 Jul 2016, 04:21

sacesta wrote:Wow, 10 surnames! And I thought Calatafimi was small. There seem to be maybe 4 or 5 dozen surnames dominant there.

Steve, that was a slight exaggeration (under exaggeration?), and might be skewed b/c I only look at Cantoia marriages. I did a quick count of my marriage records from 1866-1906, and counted 27 cognomes. However, I bet 10-12 account for 80-90% of the family names. The others occur once or twice over the 4 decades. Of course, the Cantoias may have run in a small social circle. :)
sacesta wrote:Ha! I've thought the same thing about building a communal family tree for Calatafimi, Ken. It would be interesting to see how the entire comune is related.

Yep, bucket list stuff when I have INFINITE time.
sacesta wrote:Unfortunately, my local FHC is open for very limited hours. I usually manage to get 3 hours in each Wednesday morning.

Sounds like my routine - I'm up at my FHC once a week (would go more if my wife let me). I think I'm there more often than the consultants. LOL.

-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.


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