marriage / family research question

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kencwalker
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marriage / family research question

Postby kencwalker » 20 Jul 2016, 00:02

IG team,
I ran into an interesting family research challenge, and hoping others have figured out ways to approach it (for my future reference). I will explain as briefly as possible:
My GGF: Carlo Cantoia
From his birth and marriage records, I confirm his parents are:
padre: Carlo Cantoia (yeah, confusing)
madre: Annunciata Castaldi
I also find birth records for several other children for this couple (previously unknown, as they died very young).

Now, by luck (and Ancestry search), I discover another family tree with "my" Carlo, and his sister Elisabetta (previously unknown to me). Her birth precedes the 1866 records available online, so I can't confirm parents' names. However, I find Elisabetta's marriage and discover her parents are Carlo Cantoia and the late Elisabetta Mazzone. It's entirely possible Carlo's first wife passed after Elisabetta was born, he remarried and started another family (and raised Elisabetta). It gets better. While reviewing Cantoia marriages, I find a Cantoia son (Giovanni) who's parents are also Carlo Cantoia and the late Elisabetta Mazzone! Based on his age and year of marriage he's about 5 years older than Elizabetta. So, I suspect there are 1 or 2 children born between these 2.

So, my questions:
I had the "luck" of another family tree to tip me off to an unknown (half) sister (and first wife).
Without this tip, is there any way to identify these first/second marriages and half-sister/brother relationships (w/out creating a family tree of the whole town - LOL)?
Now that my search precedes the internet sources, how would I request records from the Ufficio Anagrafe for such unknown persons?

Thanks!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

paola52
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby paola52 » 21 Jul 2016, 18:07

Hi!
I don't know if this can help you, but the Archivio di Stato of Novara has the registers of births marriages and deaths of many comuni 1806-1814 and 1830-1900. The online index doesn't name the comuni involved, but maybe it's worth a try
as-no@beniculturali.it

The Diocesan Archive has the copies of the Baptisms, marriages and death records of all the parishes of the Diocese starting with 1822
archivio@novaria.org

Ciao
Paola
Researching Provinces of Varese, Como and Milan

VotM
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby VotM » 21 Jul 2016, 23:10

If the "Novara" of interest to you is the one in Sicily, try these links for records from 1820-1865:
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ne/Novara/ (1820-1860)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... no/Novara/ (1848, 1862-1865)

Be forewarned: many of the records in this collection are badly damaged.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

kencwalker
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby kencwalker » 22 Jul 2016, 03:10

Paola and VotM,
Thanks for the tips.
The Cantoias are from the comune Cavaglio d'Agogna in Novara Province (Piemonte).
So, yes, I am very interested Archivio di Stato of Novara registers of births, marriages, and deaths for 1806-1814 and 1830-1870. (The LDS films cover records from around 1870 forward). That could coveer 2-3 more generations back. :) How can I access the Novara online index??
The churches baptism, marriage, and death records will be helpful if/when I can't find what I need in the civil records.
Thanks!!!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

VotM
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby VotM » 22 Jul 2016, 03:38

kencwalker wrote:Now, by luck (and Ancestry search), I discover another family tree with "my" Carlo, and his sister Elisabetta (previously unknown to me). Her birth precedes the 1866 records available online, so I can't confirm parents' names. However, I find Elisabetta's marriage and discover her parents are Carlo Cantoia and the late Elisabetta Mazzone. [...]

The Cantoias are from the comune Cavaglio d'Agogna in Novara Province (Piemonte).

One extra resource still available to you online (well, from a Family History Center anyway) is the Alegati. From a Family History Center, you can look up the supporting documents for a marriage in Cavaglio d'Agogna that took place between 1866 and 1917.

The bad news is that it does not appear that the FHC has the Matrimoni records online, so once you find the year you will have to look for cover sheets until you find one with Elisabetta's and her spouse's name on it. (Otherwise, you could far more easily look for the entry # associated with the marriage number -- that number is the same on the Alegati cover sheet as on the marriage sheet.)

Alegati bundles are not always in order, making the search even more difficult.

The good news is that the Alegati will generally have a transcript of each spouse's birth record. Depending on the comune, if the father and/or grandfather of a spouse was/were deceased at the time of the marriage you may also find transcripts of those death records in the bundle as well.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

kencwalker
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby kencwalker » 22 Jul 2016, 04:10

VotM wrote:One extra resource still available to you online (well, from a Family History Center anyway) is the Alegati. From a Family History Center, you can look up the supporting documents for a marriage in Cavaglio d'Agogna that took place between 1866 and 1917.

EXACTLY! parallel message threads and brilliant minds theory in action. :)
I'm hoping to find Allegati for Elisabetta along with recently discovered older brother Giuseppe. (Just to be cantankerous, he married a gal from the neighboring comune of Fontaneto d'Agogna - LOL) Looks like another Saturday morning research project! (along with finding their mother's death entry).
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

kencwalker
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby kencwalker » 23 Jul 2016, 23:21

Saturday morning at the FHC was 25-50% successful (depending on how you calculate success).
I found the Allegati for the marriage of Carlo Ferrari e Elisabetta Cantoia. It had the "Attestato di nascita" with birth dates I was looking for. Interestingly, it's a statement from the parish, NOT a civil document from the comune (births were in 1864 and 1862). Maybe civil records don't exist in Cavaglio prior to 1866?
It also had a "Attestato di Poverta". What is the purpose of this form (besides proving Carlo is very poor)?

I had less success with marriage of older brother Giuseppe Cantoia e Margherita Platini in Fontaneto d'Agonga. I found an abbreviated Allegati in Cavaglio (no birth records), and the Pubblicazioni in Fontaneto. Unfortunately, the first 4 marriages in 1884 are missing from the LDS films of the the Fontaneto Allegati (they start at marriage #5; 1-4 just aren't there - no telling if they don't exist, or weren't filmed, or missed when digitizing the film).

Then there's Carlo Cantoia's second marriage to Annunciata Castaldi . It was in 1865....so one year before the films. And the Morti don't start until 1872, so no records for the death of first wife Elisabetta Mazzone around 1864.

Not sure if today was a good day, or not.
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

VotM
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby VotM » 23 Jul 2016, 23:27

kencwalker wrote:It also had a "Attestato di Poverta". What is the purpose of this form (besides proving Carlo is very poor)?

If I understand correctly, one could have the transcript fees for the Alegati waived by claiming this status.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

kencwalker
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Re: marriage / family research question

Postby kencwalker » 23 Jul 2016, 23:35

VotM wrote:
kencwalker wrote:It also had a "Attestato di Poverta". What is the purpose of this form (besides proving Carlo is very poor)?

If I understand correctly, one could have the transcript fees for the Alegati waived by claiming this status.

I kinda figured it was something like that. Everyone was a contadino, so you had to be really poor to submit a Attestato di Poverta (or maybe everyone did). Not the "good old days".
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.


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