Common Sense test

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ray1955
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Common Sense test

Postby ray1955 » 16 Sep 2016, 23:17

My ancestry has
Fortunato Spoto, son of Rosario Spoto and Vincenza Scarpinato of Vallelunga Sicily.
Fortunato married Calogera Ferranti born 1878.
they had two children named Grace Spoto
1912-1913 and 1914 - 1915 and a daughter Rosa Spoto, born 1903.

I have someone in Ancestry that has Fortunato same as me. But the wife's name is a little different:
Calosio 1881- 1944. I figure the name is close right?

Also, in review of their records they show Fortunato came over to USA in 1903. Plus, on their 1910 Census it shows where Fortunato's first name is "FRED".......along with the list of his kids, Rosa is listed.

I am trying to validate if this is the same person in their tree and in mine.

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Re: Common Sense test

Postby kencwalker » 16 Sep 2016, 23:42

Sooooo tempting, but don't do it! :)
Speaking from experience, be very careful when you find a tree that "looks like it's your family". You can find yourself far down a dead-end (or worse, going down the wrong family line and not even know it).

You should take the attitude that nothing is true until you prove it. I consider family names found in other trees to be research projects. I'll investigate, see if there are records to substantiate the names, dates and relationships. If my research confirms they are in my family, I add them.

You can do this if the "found tree" has sources -- you can compare to your sources and determine the cause of the discrepancy. Be doubly careful if it does not have sources attached (better yet, be exceedingly suspicious). Without sources, you have no idea where the info came from. Heck, it might be from another tree that member stumbled onto. You will need to locate sources to confirm or discredit the info.

-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Tessa78
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Sep 2016, 00:13

Ken is correct! Use the information as a possible search TOOL...

You need to verify records you find by finding other records that validate the information.

Let's start here...
Do you have this information about the birth of Rosa Spoto?

Fortunato Spoto
mentioned in the record of Rosa Spoto
Name Fortunato Spoto
Gender Male
Wife Calogera Ferranti
Daughter Rosa Spoto
Other information in the record of Rosa Spoto
from Italia, Caltanissetta, Stato Civile (Archivio di Stato)
Name Rosa Spoto
Event Type Birth
Event Date 21 Jan 1903
Event Place Vallelunga Pratameno, Caltanissetta, Italy
Gender Female
Father's Name Fortunato Spoto
Mother's Name Calogera Ferranti
Certificate Number 21

T.

kencwalker
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby kencwalker » 17 Sep 2016, 00:39

Ray,
I forgot to comment on the research aspect of this.
For example, did your Fortunato Spoto immigrate to the USA?
Do you know when? If you know, you can find him on the Ellis Island records.
When researching immigrants, its best to get your information 100% solid here in the States BEFORE working back to Italy. Your Fortunato is in the genealogy research sweet spot. You should be able to find him in several census records, maybe a death record, an obituary or Social Security death index. Things you may be able to identify are place of origin, mothers maiden name and maybe other family members. These clues will solidify your search.

For example, 21 F. Spotos arrived at Ellis Island b/w 1892-1910. Two are interesting:
In 1903, Fortunalo Spoto (age 25) arrived from Valleluiga
In 1909, Fortunata Spoto (age 30) arrived from Palermo, Palermo
Both would be born around 1877-1879.

Also arriving on the same ship as Fortunalo in 1903 are Izabella Ferrante and Rosa Spoto (a baby).
Likely a fit...but the wife's name is not.

It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. Each piece is unique - Make sure it really fits. :)

Regards,
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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adelfio
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby adelfio » 17 Sep 2016, 00:46

The little green leaf eh (hint)
I would say no Ray contact the ancestry.com user and see if they have her parents names
Here you go
Birth record of Calogera Isabella Ferranti
INDEX#126
1879 July 1st in the town of Vallelunga Pratameno birth of Calogera Isabella Ferranti daughter of Loreto Ferranti age 36 and Grazia Trabona age 36 sidenote says Calogera Isabella Ferranti married Fortunato Spoto 1902 in Vallelunga Pratameno

PG LINK TO RECORD
http://interactive.ancestry.com/1889/31 ... 4266-00336

Siblings of Calogera Isabella Ferranti
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/search/record/ ... 3Atrabona~

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

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Tessa78
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Sep 2016, 01:01

Here is the marriage of Fortunato Spoto and Isabella Calogera Ferranti in 1902 in Vallelunga
Dated 11 January
He is son of Rosario Spoto and Rosalia Scarpinato
He is age 22, a farmer residing in the town. (and he signed the record at the bottom :-) )
She is daughter of Loreto Ferranti and Grazia Trabona.
She is age 22, a spinner residing in the town.

One of the witnesses to the record, who also signed, was Loreto Ferranti, age 60, mason.
The posting of the banns of marriage occurred on 8 and 15 December 1901.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 6.jpg.html


AND***

Here is birth of Fortunato Spoto in 1878
#26 - Dated 22 January, born on 21 January
Father: Rosario Spoto, 33
Mother: Rosalia Scarpinato, 33
Notation in margin of marriage to Isabella Ferranti in 1902
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 0.jpg.html

T.

kencwalker
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby kencwalker » 17 Sep 2016, 02:29

It's fascinating to watch this thread and the "Looking for Salminas" thread. I see it every day, and yet I'm still amazed how quickly this group can find so many leads with a few family facts. It's like watching a piranha feeding frenzy as the data is posted (in a good way).
Salute!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Tessa78
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Sep 2016, 04:31

kencwalker wrote:It's fascinating to watch this thread and the "Looking for Salminas" thread. I see it every day, and yet I'm still amazed how quickly this group can find so many leads with a few family facts. It's like watching a piranha feeding frenzy as the data is posted (in a good way).
Salute!
-Ken


That's quite the analogy :lol:

Grazie, Ken! (I think :-) )

T.

ray1955
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby ray1955 » 17 Sep 2016, 15:00

yes ken, I have been with this web site since I started genealogy.
I will have to review this information and see what I don't have based on the above.
I have quite a bit of information.......myself developed over time. Marty Adelphi and others here have been so so helpful.

but recently and I share this cause its so so freakin cool. I got a hit on ancestry. I don't know Ancestry as well but I received a hint which built my entire 3rd branch of my family tree. I gave me pictures of older folks et......I wouldn't have gone in that direction since I have 3 branches in sicily and I am doing mostly the 2nd branch. 3rd branch was a bonus. Happy hunting guys.

Ray

ray1955
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby ray1955 » 17 Sep 2016, 15:14

Based on what ken and Marty have written it seems the names do fit with the wife
Calogera Isabella Ferranti Isabella Ferranti appears to have been a middle name which Ken did not have.
So Isabella and Rosa appear to be part of my tree.

I will have to pull up some of these documents as I did not have those documents Marty mentioned. Ie....the marriage records. Dates in Ancestry jump from 1901 to 1905....it appears Marty got the marriage record from another source....thank you Marty !!!!!

ray1955
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby ray1955 » 17 Sep 2016, 15:41

Just looked for Fortunato and no luck on Immigration but in looking up Isabella vs Calogera, I was able to find Isabella Ferranti with husband Fortunato and Child Rosa.......so I believe this is the right one.
I will print it off and check the ages....ages are hard to read the only one for sure is Fortunato was 24.

This is not uncommon having to find the wife to find the husband.

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Tessa78
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Sep 2016, 16:15

Ray,

On the marriage act I posted above for the couple, the wife's given name is Isabella Calogera... though she appears as Calogera on Rosa's birth act :-)
Looking for her on a manifest as Isabella Ferranti (spelled Izabella Ferrante on the manifest) makes sense.

The ages on the manifest read: Fortunato Spoto, age 25; Izabella Ferrante, age 24; and Rosa Spoto, age not listed - since she was less than 1 year (born in January 1903, traveled in June 1903)

Destination for the family was Falconer, NY, to Fortunato's "brother-in-law Salvatore Canale"

Link to original birth act for Rosa Spoto in January 1903 (if you do not have it)
#21 - born on 21 January
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 7.jpg.html

T.

ray1955
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby ray1955 » 17 Sep 2016, 16:30

Were you able to find a census.....I think Fortunato may have changed his name....I can't find anything with that name.

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Tessa78
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Re: Common Sense test

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Sep 2016, 17:01

For this marriage of his son, Joseph Rosario Spoto, in 1925 in Chautauqua, Fortunato is listed as James F. Spoto.

James F Spoto
mentioned in the record of Joseph Rosario Spoto and Loretta Jane Triana
Name James F Spoto
Gender Male
Wife Calogera Ferranti
Son Joseph Rosario Spoto
Other information in the record of Joseph Rosario Spoto and Loretta Jane Triana
from New York, County Marriages
Name Joseph Rosario Spoto
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 28 Jun 1925
Event Place Chautauqua, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 21
Birth Year (Estimated) 1904
Father's Name James F Spoto
Mother's Name Calogera Ferranti

Spouse's Name Loretta Jane Triana
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 19
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1906
Spouse's Father's Name Nick C Triana
Spouse's Mother's Name Rose Ferranti

Here is a POSSIBLE 1910 US Census for the family in Ellicot, Chautauqua, NY
Father: Fred, 31yo painter, immigrated 1903
Mother: Carrie, 30, immig 1903. Lists children born - 4; children living 3
Children listed (Joseph -5; Rosario -4; and Rosa -2) were all born in New York, so it appears that the first Rosa (b. 1903 in Italy) may have died. Another daughter born in 1908 was named Rosa.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1727033

SAME family in the 1925 NYS Census
Father, James F. Spoto, lists his occupation as woodworker and operator of a general store. He indicates a naturalization in 1913 in Chautauqua Co.
Wife is listed as Catalina -
Son, Joseph R. is an automobile mechanic; son, Saro R. [Rosario] is a student at University of Buffalo; daughter Rose works in the store.
http://interactive.ancestry.com/2704/32 ... bel=Return

Yes, it appears that Fortunato adopted the name James F.
Here is the marriage of his daughter Rose in 1931 to Joseph Sinatra.


Rose M Spoto
mentioned in the record of Joseph Sinatra and Rose M Spoto
Name Joseph Sinatra
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 21 Sep 1931

Event Place Chautauqua, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 30
Birth Year (Estimated) 1901
Father's Name Charles
Mother's Name Malta
Spouse's Name Rose M Spoto
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 23
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1908
Spouse's Father's Name James
Spouse's Mother's Name Ferante


Here is the link to the 1920 US Census for the family.
I suspect you may find a name change on Fortunato's naturalization record. (NA -1911 on this census)
Family: James (runs grocery store); Cologera, wife; Joseph, Saro, and Rose (children)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1488411

T.

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Re: Common Sense test

Postby VotM » 17 Sep 2016, 17:46

Tessa78 wrote:Destination for the family was Falconer, NY, to Fortunato's "brother-in-law Salvatore Canale"

Also of potential interest: Fortunato James Spoto's draft registration for WWI:
https://www.fold3.com/image/579995094/? ... to%20spoto
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255


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