Help reading record

Are you looking for an Italian surname? Do you need more information about your family heritage?
This is the right place to start your genealogy search.
ms_mary58
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 43
Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 21:26

Help reading record

Postby ms_mary58 » 20 Sep 2016, 22:56

I would very much appreciate it if someone could help me with identifying the town in which my 3rd ggm was born. I have attached her death record. Also, I see that her father was Fortunato, but I am not able to identify a name for her mother, nor am I able to see her age at death.

Thank you in advance for your help.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

VotM
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 22:04
Location: Maryland

Re: Help reading record

Postby VotM » 20 Sep 2016, 23:31

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think the mother's name is Carmine Giammattre.

Is there a link to the original image?
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help reading record

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 20 Sep 2016, 23:45

So she was born in Castello di Sangro and there is no mention of the mother that I can see nor her age. She was the widow (vedova) of Carmine Giammatteo - I need to check the spelling. Will be back. Yes, her father was deceased Fortunato.

Edit: Yes spelling looks like Giammatteo - you might already know this though.

Angela

ms_mary58
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 43
Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 21:26

Re: Help reading record

Postby ms_mary58 » 21 Sep 2016, 02:03

Thank you both. Yes, I knew that she was the widow of Carmine Giammatteo. Three of my grandparents/great grandparents came from Alife and, I am sure that, like many people whose ancestors all came from the same area, the names are repeated throughout the family tree.

Was Castello di Sangro in Caserta?

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help reading record

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 21 Sep 2016, 03:27

Hi

Happy to help. No I am pretty sure it would be in the province of L'Aquila, in the region of Abruzzo. There are records on line for L'Aquila here at this site: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... i+LAquila/


Do you know roughly when she was born? I'm reading her surname as Zaccagnino which doesn't seem to appear in that town today. If there are indices I'll check to see if the name appeared there.

Angela

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help reading record

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 21 Sep 2016, 04:17

I've had a check through various indices of the Castel del Sangro records and couldn't see any evidence of the surname Zaccagnino there so maybe there is an error in the records and it is suppose to read Castello di ......? Have run out of time now. Maybe someone else has another idea.

Angela :)

User avatar
mmogno
Elite
Elite
Posts: 333
Joined: 14 Mar 2016, 22:29

Re: Help reading record

Postby mmogno » 21 Sep 2016, 11:55

VotM wrote:Is there a link to the original image?


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043630

VotM
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 22:04
Location: Maryland

Re: Help reading record

Postby VotM » 21 Sep 2016, 14:37

Thanks! That image is *much* clearer.

Definitely looks like "nata in Castello di Sangro", and I don't see an age or a mother's name given.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
Master
Master
Posts: 4843
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Help reading record

Postby erudita74 » 21 Sep 2016, 15:26

I saw a reference to Castello di Sangro e Ducale nel comune di Torremaggiore in a pdf file, but I don't have time to further investigate this possibility now. Later today, if I can, or possibly someone else can check into this in the meantime.

Erudita

ms_mary58
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 43
Joined: 29 Sep 2015, 21:26

Re: Help reading record

Postby ms_mary58 » 21 Sep 2016, 16:54

Based on birth records for her children, I would estimate she was born around 1802. I can't view the familysearch records from here, but I will look next week when I travel to my family history center.

Given how isolated towns were, I do wonder how a marriage at a distance would happen unless it was an arranged marriage or a relative.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

VotM
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 22:04
Location: Maryland

Re: Help reading record

Postby VotM » 21 Sep 2016, 18:20

If all else fails, you can look for the marriage record for Angelarosa Zaccagnino and Carmine Giammatteo. Presumably the marriage took place in Alife, as it seems that Angelarosa and her father both resided there. That record should give you an estimate on her birth year as well as her mother's name.

The down side is that you would need to look at microfilm. The records for Alife from 1809-1865 are not available online even at a FHC. Not yet.

A pity the Allegati aren't on file for Alife... at least, not as far back as you need.

Good hunting!

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help reading record

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 21 Sep 2016, 20:36

ms_mary58 wrote:Based on birth records for her children, I would estimate she was born around 1802.

Given how isolated towns were, I do wonder how a marriage at a distance would happen unless it was an arranged marriage or a relative.

Thanks again everyone for your help.


Happy to help. Yes, I thought she would have been born late 1700's early 1800's. What year was the first child born in? '

(Just wanted to point out that from the record I am understanding that Angelarosa was born in Castello del Sangro and living in Alife, but there is no mention that the father had lived in Alife. It's possible that the reason why the mother's name isn't mentioned is because the parents remained in Angelarosa's birth town and the mother's name was not common knowledge in Alife. Just my thoughts here.)

Angela :)

VotM
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 22:04
Location: Maryland

Re: Help reading record

Postby VotM » 21 Sep 2016, 21:05

AngelaGrace56 wrote:Just wanted to point out that from the record I am understanding that Angelarosa was born in Castello del Sangro and living in Alife, but there is no mention that the father had lived in Alife. [...])

Sorry. My eyes first saw "domicilato ivi' and read it as "domicilato ici"... and my memories of Franch translated the last word to give me the phrase "lived here" (i.e., Alife). I see that "docilato ivi" translates more as "lived there"; presumably in Italian grammar "there" applies to the first place mentioned rather than the last.
AngelaGrace56 wrote:It's possible that the reason why the mother's name isn't mentioned is because the parents remained in Angelarosa's birth town and the mother's name was not common knowledge in Alife. Just my thoughts here.

Very likely. If Angelarosa was sufficiently old at the time of her death, this could have happened even if she had remained in her native town.

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help reading record

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 21 Sep 2016, 21:43

VotM wrote:
AngelaGrace56 wrote:Just wanted to point out that from the record I am understanding that Angelarosa was born in Castello del Sangro and living in Alife, but there is no mention that the father had lived in Alife. [...])

Sorry. My eyes first saw "domicilato ivi' and read it as "domicilato ici"... and my memories of Franch translated the last word to give me the phrase "lived here" (i.e., Alife). I see that "docilato ivi" translates more as "lived there"; presumably in Italian grammar "there" applies to the first place mentioned rather than the last.


Humble apologies! I believe that you were initially correct. It does suggest that the father had lived in Alife. I only read as far as his profession Contadino :oops:

Am racing out the door as per usual so will take another look later.

Angela

erudita74
Master
Master
Posts: 4843
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Help reading record

Postby erudita74 » 21 Sep 2016, 22:26

I also understand from the wording in the record that the father had lived in Alife.
Erudita


Return to “Italian Genealogy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 7 guests