"recent" civil birth records

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"recent" civil birth records

Postby kencwalker » 23 Sep 2016, 18:44

I'm looking for feedback regarding civil birth records in the 1910-1920 time frame. Based on other threads, I assume all births were recorded, even if the mother or father was not identified.

My previous research was the 1866-1910 era for ancestors in Cavaglio d'Agogna & Fontaneto d'Agogna (Novara) in FamilySearch records. I've found all family members, including some I didn't know existed. The only challenges were the usual handwriting and language issues, and a few mixed up names.

Now I'm faced with a bigger challenge: not finding any record for 2 births: one in 1912 and the other in 1917. The 1912 birth is an illegitimate child (father unknown). Despite the social stigma, I assumed the birth is recorded somewhere. Given the mother and grandparents (who raised the child) lived in Cavaglio, I thought I'd at least find a Parte II entry (and didn't). Any suggestions where else I should look? Unfortunately, her marriage occurred in 1931, so no online records to check.

The 1917 birth is more of a research project. An Italian cyclist who won a few stages on the Tour de France shares a common last name with some ancestors. He's from Fontaneto d'Agogna, so there there's a possibility of a family relationship. I'd hoped to research his family to see if there's a connection. Again, no birth record in his stated town of birth.

So, should I keep looking -- are all births recorded somewhere?
Thanks, -Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

ray1955
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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby ray1955 » 24 Sep 2016, 16:53

I would think the local catholic church would have record regardless since civil records were started around 1809 and in some regions quit using civil records until they started using them again but the catholic church would still record the birth and baptisms. Just a suggestion.........

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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby suanj » 24 Sep 2016, 18:08

Now I'm faced with a bigger challenge: not finding any record for 2 births: one in 1912 and the other in 1917. The 1912 birth is an illegitimate child (father unknown). Despite the social stigma, I assumed the birth is recorded somewhere. Given the mother and grandparents (who raised the child) lived in Cavaglio, I thought I'd at least find a Parte II entry (and didn't). Any suggestions where else I should look? Unfortunately, her marriage occurred in 1931, so no online records to check.

Hi,
by my experience I can say you, that rarely the town where the foundling was raised and lived is the same where he was born... he was born in some Commune in the area.... hoping helpful...
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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby Italysearcher » 25 Sep 2016, 12:30

If the child was retured to the mother in 1912 the chances are he was given her surname esepcially if he was returned to her. Alternately he was presented by the midwife, given an invented surname, then returned to the natural mother for raising. In these cases the birth will probably be found in the town where the child was raised. Look for a foundling with the same or close birth date.
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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby kencwalker » 25 Sep 2016, 21:18

sunaj and Italysearcher,
Thanks for the info about foundlings. I don't think this relative is a foundling in that sense. She was not given up and raised by another family. I think she was raised by her grandparents after her mother immigrated to the USA (when the child was 3). Other evidence: she appears in a cousin's family tree and she's in a photo from a 1948 family reunion. She's also in a photo with my nonna (her cousin) when they visited Rome together that year.
That said, her birth isn't recorded in the family hometown. I checked all the birth entries between March and May, the Parte II entries, plus the adjoining town, and the same for the following year. It wouldn't surprised me if the mother was sent somewhere to have the baby, and that's where the birth was recorded.
Thanks -Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby kencwalker » 25 Sep 2016, 21:29

ray1955 wrote:I would think the local Catholic Church would have record regardless since civil records were started around 1809 and in some regions quit using civil records until they started using them again but the Catholic Church would still record the birth and baptisms.

Hi Ray,
I replied before I read your response. Sorry. Yes, the church is another alternative. This is a very small town (1,400), so don't want to bother the priest until I really need to. Given the "recent" date (1912) I suspect the birth is recorded in a civil register somewhere.
Thanks -- Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby suanj » 25 Sep 2016, 21:49

Hi,
ok, well, she was no a foundling, sorry I understood so, because you wrote" illegitimate child (father unknown)" and I don't thinked that the mmother recognized the child, sorry..

However if the mother had the child and she was no married, also in this case, it was very common to give the birth in a place far of residence town, and in the case of foundlings must investigate abt the birth in the records of town far just some km from residence town as a well 100 km from residence town, ditto to search the birth record of a child born from a unmarried woman..
however when this child went to grandparents, the her data must be registered in the Commune... If you have the possibility, you can search in the Birth records after 1912, in the case of tardive Birth registration.... and if no luck to search in 1912 births of the surrounding towns records...
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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby kencwalker » 26 Sep 2016, 15:14

suanj wrote:however when this child went to grandparents, the her data must be registered in the Commune... If you have the possibility, you can search in the Birth records after 1912, in the case of tardive Birth registration.... and if no luck to search in 1912 births of the surrounding towns records.

sunaj,
Yes, that's what I was thinking. If her 1912 birth was entered a few years late, would it be in Parte II? Also, would the child have the mother's last name (same as the grandparents)?
Thanks -- Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: "recent" civil birth records

Postby suanj » 26 Sep 2016, 17:13

Ken, abt your search:
-if the mother recognized the child at Birth, the child had mother last name. And the Birth record is in the 1th part of register.

-If the mother don't recognized the child at Birth (so the Birth record is in the 2th part of register, because the baby was a foundling and had a fantasy name), but she claims to raise, means that in the waiting of better luck, she raise the baby like a baby sitter, and maybe she hopes to recognize it, then, legally, as his daughter.

(That was a ploy to not miss neither the son nor his honor to unmarried woman; the fact that she claims to have found the child, and that she claims to raise it, meaning that she was the biological mother. That was a common ploy in all Italy).

In this case the Birth is recorded on the second part of Birth register of 1912, but normally, at bottom, it are a note abt the recognition by mother... (Sometimes I have not found the note.... but however the child was recognized after some year.... but no recognition note at bottom... ).

So the search in 1912?

-In first part of register if the baby was recognized by mother at Birth;
.in second part of register if the baby was no recognized by mother at birth. To read all recognition notes, and if no recognition note, to read all births, take notes about the female foundlings and date of births and who is applying for custody...

After 1912:
-If it was a tardive registration of Birth, so after some year and by court judgment, the record is always in the 2th part of Birth register. So you can try in further years.

-If no helpful traces to search in civil records of some Commune in the area, possibly where lived some relative.... same as above and to search in 1th and 2th part of register, starting fom 1912.
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