The name Sega before it got changed.

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lbaars
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The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 25 Sep 2016, 17:19

I know this name got changed probably during or before WWII to the modern Sega. Possibly the "g" got changed to "c" sounding more like Seka, but it is also possible Sega is shortened from a name that used to be longer.

The family I am looking into is from around Udine, Udine. I have a Giovanni Sega? (1893?-1968) marrying Liduina Jacob (1902?-1989) They immigrated to Canada as a family in 1948 and settled in the Toronto area.

I did find the parents of Liduina here:

http://antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/ ... 4.jpg.html

Right now I am stuck trying to figure out what the name Sega used to be any help would be much appreciated.

Just a note I can usually figure out what the documents say, but don't speak a word of Italian.

Another little mystery can someone figure out what the town is that Giovanni was born at in the link above?

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 26 Sep 2016, 21:05

I should also add that although I haven't gotten any of this confirmed I do have birth date and parents of Giovanni Sega:

Born on 28 Nov 1893 at or near Udine son of Antonio and Maria Gregori.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby mmogno » 26 Sep 2016, 22:15

lbaars wrote:Another little mystery can someone figure out what the town is that Giovanni was born at in the link above?

Rizzolo
http://italia.indettaglio.it/ita/friuli ... zzolo.html

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby Tessa78 » 26 Sep 2016, 22:50

Place of birth for Giovanni Iacob looks like Rizzolo.

Rizzolo, comune of Reana del Roiale, Udine, Friuli-Venezia Giulia

T.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 26 Sep 2016, 23:03

Looks absolutely correct, just couldn't find it on the map. Thanks to you both.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby Tessa78 » 27 Sep 2016, 02:26

Here is the commune of Reana del Rojale on a map.
Rizzolo is a hamlet/village (called a frazione) of the town.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reana_del_Rojale

T.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 30 Sep 2016, 00:36

This still doesn't answer my main question. I am looking into the possibility there may have been a complete name change, perhaps they got into some bad business during the war. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they would have had a slight name change. I do know that this change didn't happen with the immigration where sometimes names can get anglicized.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 05 Oct 2016, 18:21

Hi,
just to say that not necessarily some bad business... after WWII there was the diaspora of the Julian-Dalmatian... I don't know if the Liduina parents are the right parents, but I searched in all Udiìne province and with all possible spelling and no one.. also I searched abt Maria Gregori various spelling and just some people came up and then, searching in the births of these towns no one Giovanni...
So I have idea that your ancestor coming no from Udine area, maybe Trieste or Fiume area, that is more credible... I found a brief obituary abt Albino Sencich, son in law of Giovanni and he was born in Fiume on 1928 http://www.giulianodalmato.com/El_Bolet ... ol-097.pdf

On 1957/8 the your ancestor name is on the voter list so he was naturalized: you can read that the first name is
Glovonl Sega...
Nome: Glovonl Sega
Residenza: 1958 - Toronto , Ontario, Canada


but you can search the naturalization papers....
so just a resume, because I don't know if the search abt Liduina birthplace is right and because o one Giovanni with a surname similar or juststarting with "S" or "C" and having almost a "G" or a "C" is no found in Udine Archive I believe that your Giovanni was born no in Udine area but maybe near Fiume town or Trieste town... just a my idea...
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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 06 Oct 2016, 17:31

Hi, here also the obituary of Aldo John Sega (b. 20 Sep 1932) son of Giovanni, on the newspaper "El Boletin" of Club Giuliano-Dalmato of Toronto
http://www.giulianodalmato.com/El_Bolet ... ol-151.pdf
pag 15....he was a member and treasurer of Club, I believe that when he joined has provided all of its data

so maybe the Club have his birthplace filed.... you can contact?
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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 07 Oct 2016, 17:11

The italianization of surnames... apparently Slavs.... well:
Sega=Zega
pag 84; 3th column italianized surname; 4th column original surname
http://www.academia.edu/18241726/Un_ono ... adika_2010
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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 09 Oct 2016, 01:16

That is very interesting, I am currently trying to get some more information especially from Annie Sega the daughter of Giovanni (b.1893) and Liduina (b1902).

I did hear from another source that Giovanni may have come from the Trieste Area, so you may very well be right. I had assumed that since Liduina came from the Udine area which I shouldn't write in stone but I still believe that to be true. This may not have been true of Giovanni, he may have come from the Trieste area and got displaced and somehow landed himself near the Udine area and got married to Liduina.

It surprises me though that you think Sega and perhaps Zega was Slavic and thus not ethnically Italian. I am not saying it is not true, I am just saying it surprises me.

This is very fascinating, I hope to have some more information for you!

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby lbaars » 09 Oct 2016, 06:00

I am getting from a daughter of Aldo (1932-2012) that he was born in Udine. Reasonably certain but not absolutely sure. That of course doesn't that that Giovanni Sega couldn't have come from Trieste and was forced to make his name more Italian from Zega to Sega.

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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 09 Oct 2016, 09:11

Hi,
no, I mean, that the surname Zega or Sega, abt the spelling, seeming influenced by Slavic language, like many surnames of Piemonte and Valle d'Aosta regions, seeming French surnames, because these regions are on the border with France, but these people are all ethnically Italians...so just abt the spelling no abt ethnicity...
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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 09 Oct 2016, 09:55

If you read the obituary of Albino Sencich his birthplace was Fiume town.
The town of Fiume, today, Rijeka (Croatia) belonged to Italy from 1924 to 1945, but the city has always had the majority of the population of ethnic and Italian culture.

With the Paris Peace Treaty, signed February 10, 1947, thus resulting in the Second World War, it was ceded to the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which had occupied Fiume since May 3, 1945, along with the rest of the Julian region.

In 1939 the town had 58,616 inhabitants, after the end of World War II on the basis of a census of November 30, 1945 it counted 47,839. The latter was denied the right to self determination and was granted them, according to the peace treaty of Paris, only to choose between the two states, tying this concession to the recognition of the language used by the occupant. It is estimated that no less than 88% of citizens in such conditions chose the way of the exodus to Italy.
that's why we talk about Julian-Dalmatian Exodus...

so abt Albino Sencich obituary, the obituary was on the Julian-dalmatien newspaper and also Aldo was from long time a member of club Julian-dalmatian.... but on his obituary was wrote just born in Italy... so I believed that his birtharea was near Trieste or Fiume and that because emigrated just after 1947, the original surname could be Zega and the area is Trieste or near Trieste especially... and also in Cherso Island just in front of Fiume/Rijeka ...

To understand very well the geographic area you have to understand that the name of their region was composed of two names: Friuli-Venezia Giulia.
It is composed of two historical and geographical regions with different cultural characteristics: the Friuli and the Venezia Giulia.
The region after WWII:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_ ... ces-it.svg
http://www.sapere.it/mediaObject/gedea/ ... p00081.png

but before of Peace Treaty of Paris the territory was so:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esodo_giu ... stria2.jpg

So the slavic surname don't means that these people was no italians, because they was italians by Language and culture, but the war is the war and or accepting the new era under communist power or to go away...
and so the Exodus.. the assets were all seized, and these peoples started a new life in a new country...
and do not forget the war crimes, the terrible ethnic cleansing...

By my search giovanni or Aldo was no born in Udine, because in Udine archive I don't found Giovanni... I used all possible surname that could be vaguely due to Sega...

Also abt maiden name of his mother, no many Maria Gregori or Gregoris or similar spelling.. and I made a private search in the towns where these few Maria was born and I don't found Giovanni almost from 1890 to 1893. I searched in all military records abt service cards of men born in Gorizia region and no helpful.. so remaining Trieste area and the ex territory like Fiume and nearby area....
In a message on internet:
Giovanni Sega
Born 28 Nov 1893 at Udine or area
Parents Antonio and Maria Gregorika
Died around 1968 Toronto Ontario

the surname is spelled Gregorika.... If Gregorika is right maybe the my idea abt birtharea could be right...
Just my opinion,
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Re: The name Sega before it got changed.

Postby suanj » 10 Oct 2016, 17:28

Hi, by this webpage Aldo seeming born in Fiume also, like Albino Sencich:

http://marshallfuneralhome.com/book-of- ... ituary.php
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