Bertolino/Locana/Torino

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Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 27 Dec 2005, 08:00

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday I received a packet full of documents from my grandparents. Inside the leather packet were documents about my great grandfather and great grandmother.

Some of the documents I scanned and are here:

Birthcertificate #1

Birthcertificate #2

Military Discharge Papers?

Those are just SOME of the documents I received. I know this is a big source that I have that most people do not, but what I would like to do is go further back another generation if possible. Using the documents I have now what can I do to find out who my great grandparents parents were.

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby brujaojos » 28 Dec 2005, 09:42

Hi There,

You do have some great documents. Please protect them.

The one document is the Birth Act of Giacomo Giovanni Bertolino. He was born on January 16, 1922. His parents are Giacomo Bertonlino and Margherita Fassino.

The other document is the Birth Act of Margherita Fassino. She was born on February 5, 1894. Her parents are Domenico Fassino and Marianna Tornusi (not sure of spelling). Also in the bottom left, it states that she married Giacomo Antonio Bertolino on April 29, 1921.

When the document was written on September 7, 1921, Domenico Fassino was already deceased for it stated "fu" Domenico as her father. These are all great clues.

Now the Family History Center has microfilm for the Locana, but it's Chruch Records. Here is the link for those film numbers.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... =1&last=50

In order to get other documents, you will have to write to the town itself. Here is it's address.

Ufficio Civile Stato
Comune di Locana
Roma 63 (via)
10080 Locana TO

Here is a link to help you translate your letter into Italian.
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp

I hope some of this helps.
Trish
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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 28 Dec 2005, 11:06

from what I have been told, birthcertificates werent always given when the child was born, they often got them later.

Im mentioning this because, my great grandfather - giacomo, was born in 1890, he served in WWI against the Austrians

Is that true?

Unless that is my grandfather's brother who passed away..I dont know his name

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 28 Dec 2005, 19:58

HI.

Firstly you should be aware of the difference between an "Atto di Nascita" (Act of Birth) and a "Certificato di Nascita"Birth certificate.
The former was the registration of a birth made on the City Hall register imediately after a person is born; the letter are abstracts from these registers, given on demand of the person or some of his family.
For example you could ask today to the Comune of Locana to check in their "Atti di Nascita" registers for your grandparents' Acts, and they could give you their "Certificato di nascita", reporting when they was born but dated 2005.
In your particular case, since at the end of both certificates it's written that these certificates were released on domand "for emigration purpose", the date they were released gives you with good approximation the time when these people left Italy.

Secondly, the three documents you posted here are referred to 3 different people, parents and their child.
You have the military descharge paper of the father Giacomo (Antonio) BERTOLINO, (born 1890); the birth certificate of his wife Margherita FASSINO (born February 5th, 1894 and daughter of the late Domenico FASSINO and of the living Marianna TOMASI DELO); and the birth certificate of their son Giacomo Giovanni BERTOLINO, born on January 16th, 1922.
Also, an annotation on Margherita's birth certificate says that she married "Giacomo Antonio BERTOLINO" on April 29, 1921.

You're really lucky, with such a great source to work on.

Hope this helps.
Ciao,
Maurizio

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 28 Dec 2005, 21:41

I just want to give a big thank you to everyone that has helped so far. I know I have some priceless treasures and I will protect them and pass them on.

I will scan and post a handful of other documents that I have too, I dont know what they are since I havent tried to translate them.

one last thing, is there someone here that could translate a letter maybe? I have about...3-4 letters writen by Giacomo, my great grandfather to my great grandmother durring World War I.

THANKS A TON!!!
-=James Bertolino=-

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 29 Dec 2005, 01:28

UPDATE

Document 1

Document 2

Document 3

Back of Document 3

Letter #1

Back of Letter #1

I really have no idea what any of these documents say, so some help would be muchly appreciated.

THANKS AGAIN

-=James=-

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 29 Dec 2005, 06:26

Hi, James.

The three documents you posted here, all referred to Margherita Fassino, were part of the required papers in order to obtain the emigration permit. They are:
1) a Health Certificate (“Certificato di Sanitàâ€Â

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 29 Dec 2005, 07:26

WOW!!

I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH. There are 2 other letters, I dont want to burden you with the time of having to translate them, but if you could it would be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! if you cannot then that is ok too. I see alot of myself in my great grandfather...thanks again!

-=James=-

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 30 Dec 2005, 05:37

HI James.

As for the letters, if you're not in a big hurry you can post them here (maybe with an higher resolution in pixels), and I'll see what I can do.
In exchange, may I pose you a question? I know of other individuals or families emigrated from Locana to America at the beginning of the '20s and they all settled in a town called Wakefield, MI: is that place far from where your ancestors originally stayed when arriving in the U.S.? I'm asking you that since I saw in your profile you're residing in that same State.

Ciao,
Maurizio

P.S.: You probably already know, but among the things you share with your ggfather there's also the first name: in fact Giacomo is the Italian version for James (and/or viceversa).

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 30 Dec 2005, 11:02

Ill post some better pictures of the letters when I can

I dont know where wakefield is but I can look it up and see where. My family lived in downtown detroit when they got here.

Yes i know im named after my great grandfather, I already know that when I have my son he'll be named after my grandfather, dominic or dominico. Also in Locana, there is a day called something along the lines of St. Giacomo's Day. They throw a huge party at the church in imperia? i think? theres a church in the mountains where Locana is at the base of. I was there when they had the party, good times were had.

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 31 Dec 2005, 04:52

HI James.

Wakefield is in Gogebic county, N-W of the State I guess, anyway not so close to Detroit.

There are many churches or chapels high on the mountains around Locana, and most of them have their own annual feast. Imperia is a city in Liguria, in a totally different part of Italy. To my knowledge, the only church dedicated to San Giacomo in the area are in Sparone (a few miles south of Locana) and in Ingria (few miles as the crow flies, but in a secondary valley: the Valle Soana).

Did you recently visited Locana? And have you maintaned a link with your family here?

Ciao,
Maurizio

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Airborne » 31 Dec 2005, 06:41

Hmm...

Well I may be goofing up cities then..I went about 8 years ago, I was only about 12 years old, so I may have forgotten things.

The huge group of people gave me a silver cup *like trophy* saying this
"L'Amministrazione Comunale di Imperia" From what I get its from the Administration of Imperia?

But yes we still have family there, actually Giacomo Bertolino, my grandfathers cousin I think? lives up there with a bunch of other family members. The family has a house up there too, very nice marble floors and just beautiful. I believe my grandfather/mother and aunt are going there this summer, so I'll hopefully have better pictures.

As far as Giacomo Bertolino who I mentioned earlier, I believe he worked for the mayors office, like..lieutenant mayor or something *im sure thats not a real position but along those lines* He took me into the mayors office and let me put on the ribbon thing that the mayor has, Id have to look up the picture. Anyways, I'll post the other letters too, if you need bigger let me know

Front

Back

Front

Back

Thanks for being soo much help, I shared the information with my immediate family today and they were surprised by what we have. Thanks!

EDIT* - I talked with my grandfather and he said he has been to wakefield, I guess his mom and dad took him up there and his mother knew a bunch of people up there from the old country

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 05 Jan 2006, 05:57

Hi James.

That silver cup they gave you really baflles me. I also checked my Italian atlas, and I can confirm you that the only place called Imperia in Italy is a town in Liguria, more than 200 miles far from Locana (a very high distance for our Italian standards) and with absolutely nothing in common. The inscription says "The town council of Imperia" (it would be intersting to know if there's something else written): my only hypothesis is that it could be a "recycled" gift...

I remember I heard of that Giacomo Bertolino who really was the "vicesindaco" of Locana (and you're right: he was a sort of local Dick Cheney!) some years ago. He's now out of the town council (or maybe after last elections he was elected, but he's in opposition to the major who won the popular vote).

Here you'll find the translation of the first letter. I put into square brackets a couple of words and sentences I couldn't read or I wasn't absolutely sure. The handwriting is not too difficult to read, but sometimes an enlargment would help: so if you could post a bigger image for the second letter that would surely useful.

Ciao,
Maurizio


From the front, September 28th, 1915

My very dear Margherita,
Yesterday to my surprise I got your dear and desired postcard; what a joy for a languishing and suffering heart to receive a comfort by the heart he so much adores.
However in the middle of these so high and rough mountains, staring at the enemy, among the pains and uneasiness that I’m suffering, with my thoughts confused by the turmoil that war imposes on us, though my mind is always applied to you, my beloved, and to my dears far away. Heaven help me if I haven’t someone comforting me, giving me courage, enriching and flourishing my dreams.
If it wasn’t for your heart, that seems I can hear beating so close, and for your image, that I can always see with your sweet smile of love, especially in times of sorrow, Margherita, life would be really more sad for me, I’d have
[a burden in my heart I wouldn’t be able to restore myself].
The postcard of yours I received, I’ll say it better, your sweet thought that your heart suggested towards whom has nothing dearer than your person. Dear Beloved, don’t cast doubts if I’m sometimes late in giving you notice of myself, due to lack of time and of ease and of paper and ink, but I may never forget you, since I love you too much and you’re always close to my heart in every place and every danger.
My Dear, I hope war won’t last too long, and may soon arrive that wonderful day when we can meet and embrace again, and if fate wants be joint forever. Here we lead a life... you can guess... at war; bur luckily we aren’t in great danger, the enemy is weak and doesn’t cow us, maybe sometimes they send us some grenades but we’re not scared since they are ineffective; shouldn’t we die for coldness I hope I’ll escape death and be embraced with you someday; may come soon that wonderful day when we’ll be happy, after so many pains and sorrows. Here we always stand guard, in trench day and night with big coldness, but let’s hope that within twenty days we’ll go down to the village to have a rest for a while: I’ll let you know straightaway.
Dear Beloved, I guess you’d got my letter I sent you on the 26th ult. and a postcard of the [...] inst., but you didn’t mention anything about them; I received your postcard of the 12th inst.. Dear margherita, I already asked you several times news and the address of your brother Pietro so I can write and give him news of myself, but...
You’ll pity
[this writing of mine], since I’m writing while mounting guard in trench with a big coldness in my hands, with my heart stirred by my love for you in thinking again to those happy days we spent together. As for my health, at the moment I’m doing very fine, and I always hope it’s the same for you and your family. I plead you to frequently let me hear from you, what I so much desire.
Now I’m quitting with the pen, but I stay with the thought of you in my heart. I say good-bye to you with all my heart. Give my greetings to your dearest. A thousand greetings, a warm kiss and a long sigh from your unforgettable love
Giacomo Bertolino

I’m attaching you this edelweiss as a souvenir of mine.

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby mfjp » 05 Jan 2006, 20:33

Hello Maurizio,

I so much enjoy the transcriptions of these letters... you have done wonderful work here.

James, these are priceless letters to have. Glad you posted.

I can't contribute anything here... just wanted to let you both know that I've enjoyed reading these letters especially from such a caring Giacomo.

Happy New Year! mfjp

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Re: Bertolino/Locana/Torino

Postby Maurizio » 10 Jan 2006, 22:54

Hello.
MFJP, thank you for your compliments, but you are too kind with my English: I'm aware that my skill in your language isn't as good as should be, so I had to resign myself to the fact I was unable to render all the nuances of the original prose. However it's nice to know I supplied a comprehensible version and I succeded in conveying to american readers part of the emotion I myself could feel by reading these letters in my language.

By the way, both my grandfathers served the army in that same period and circumstance. For most of Italian (and Austrian) soldiers, WWI was a terrible attrition and trench warfare, with troops spending months and years in gaining and loosing few yards of ground, dying of being injured by coldness as by grenades: a terrible psycological experience. Exactly the same scenario described in these letters by Giacomo Bertolino.

James, here's to you the second one (I couldn't decypher the date and some other words, putting in square brackets what I thought was the possible translation).

Ciao,
Maurizio




From the front, [...date...]

[align=justify]My very dear and beloved Margherita,
It’s with an immense pleasure and consolation that yesterday I received your dear and desired letter: what a relief for me, poor [...], in knowing I’m still present in the mind of that Angel I adore and especially in knowing you are in good health. My dear, for the moment I can say I still am in perfect health and I hope the same always, every day, for you and your family. My dear beloved, I received the postcard you sent me from the M. of Groscavallo(1) and I’m thanking you so much. Many days and weeks elapsed [Without receiving letters, it’s meant] and yet nothing: considering myself here [... far?] from you, I already resigned myself to abandonment. Now, with these writings of yours, my soul got awoken again, this bad life seems to me a bit less tough, because I’m thinking so far away there’s a heart still caring and waiting for me.
My dear beloved, last night – thinking to you and keeping you in my heart – I dreamed I was at home, close to you; but suddenly the rumble of the gun woke me up with a big emotion in finding myself living in these deserts and rocky mountains already covered by snow, far far away from the one I adore. What a disgrace. I pondered about it for a while and I finally bowed to the hope in God and in the fact this dream may someday became real.
My dear beloved, now I’ll tell you something of the life we live day and night in this sighing mounts. At night, as soon as dark arrives when you go sleeping we go down in trenches, to guard the Tricolour [the Italian flag], to work for a better safety of our position, staying up for your sake, always with our thoughts directed to you, our dears far away quietly resting, hoping someday to be able to meet you again and to embrace ourselves safe and sound. As soon as a new dawn arises, we go back to our scanty pallets, resting a bit and having a short sleep before returning to work, always work, every single day and night we always have this same life. It’s cold here, and it rains, and often it hails, what makes our life so tough and painful as a [... martyrdom/torture?]. But God and all Saints are still protecting me and preserving my health. Here we’re not really in danger for the enemy, however they’re quite close to us; sometimes they turn up sending us some cannonball, but to no effect: we’re strong and proud, we’re not scared. Until now we hadn’t any fight; we already are quite ahead and waiting for the right moment to make our strength count.
My very dear Margherita,
twice already I looked death in the face due to grenades exploded close to me, yet Fate didn’t want me to fall in fatal disgrace. God protected me again, due to the prayers of you all: I’m thanking you so much. And I thank you especially for the prayers you’d say for my sake to V.M. of Groscavallo (1). Should I have the luck to come back safe and sound, and should I have the honour to take you as my spouse, I’ll know how to reward you.
Dear beloved, now I’ll tell you something that really hurts me. When I still was in the village where I stayed before, I had my photograph taken on purpose to send it to you and let you see myself dressed as a soldier. But the photographer didn’t keep his word, since he promised he would have sent it here where I am now, but I still got nothing until now. In any case, should he send them to me, I’ll immediately forward one to you, if it please you. I keep your (picture) with carefulness and for me it’s the dearest memory on this earth: wherever I’ll go your picture will be with me till the grave; in the saddest hours I take a look to you, one thought and I get comfort, it seems to me I find some relief.
Margherita, I’d be really pleased to have your brother Pietro’s address, in order to send him some news of myself: I beg you to send it to me. Write often, always without stamp, here it costs nothing for me, and for you also it costs nothing, just the trouble of writing: when I receive news from you, that’s the only comfort I can have on these very high peaks, where rhere are only crows and chamois. I’ll write you often to keep you informed of myself: writing is my passion, when I have the chance. And you, please, tell me something of our village or of anything else.
My dear, when writing this one, I’m under the tent, sheltered from snow falling in large flakes, like those we’re used to see in the month of January in our valley: ut let’s hope it won’t last too long. Forgive me for my bad handwriting, ‘cause leaning on my rucksack and my hands and feet so cold, I can’t write better. I don’t know what more to tell you now, I’ll write you often.
I’m finishing with my pen, not with my heart. I’m greeting you with real love. Give my regards to your family.
You receive a thousand greetings and kisses and one yearning thought of love by your unforgettable and fond lover
Giacomo

With the hope in God that we could meet again.
Good-bye, good-bye, Ciao, ciao


Above, in the opposite direction, it's wiritten:

I’m sending to you this edelweiss picked up at the last moment.
Good-bye, now.
[/align]

(1). The sanctuary of the Madonna (M.) or Vergine Maria (V.M.) in the village of Groscavallo is/was traditionally the destination of a massive pilgrimage the people of Locana had/have each summer. The temple is in a parallel valley, and at that time reaching it requested a trip by feet of several hours over uneasy paths climbing the mountains.


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