OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

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OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 03:38

Hi All,

Rather interesting bunch of Questions for you.

For 26 years I have been looking for any real information on my Grandfather. The only thing I knew about him was he had Olive skin, jet black hair and dark eyes. Oh,, and lots of family rumors.

To make it short... I had a mtDNA test done.. needless to say it followed his line and not the line it was supposed too.
Anyway....

I now know he was Italian like I was told as a Child and not other races.
Heres the fun part... no one really knows his real name. Never used the same one twice on "any" paperwork.

He however was around Ipswich and Gloucester MA 1935. Then showed back up 10/11 years after that.
When I lived back there I put up fliers and all that and got nothing.

He died under the name Sagawinia. Now I know it is not Italian,, however is it possible that it is the phonic spelling and not how it would of been done in Italy?
IE.. like my Grammy.. Amireau in France (proper spelling), Amirault in Canada,, Amiro in USA... Amiro is how it is phonically said...if that makes any sense.

Any more ideas?

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby nuccia » 27 Feb 2006, 04:07

Hi Shari,

I sent you a private message...

Nuccia :D

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 05:42

OK,, more info as I know it. The Saga of my name Changing Italian Grandfather.

Lets see....

Alkin Sagwinia was the one he died under. Have his death photo. Died in Hamliton Ma.
Was a News paper article but the info wasn't correct. Was Working for a Tree company in Gloucester, MA at the time. Talked with both the company and the funeral home,, they have no info on him. Other than the last wife and children, no one showed up when he died.

My Mom birth certificate says Joseph LeRoy. I was told he named her Aurora Mary. Was also told that was his mother's name? Can't be sure because of all that he did with his names. Was it a family name??

The Birth years and Dates are all different on all paper work I have on him,,as well as his names.

He had at least 3 wives that I know of. Found and are friends with one of the other families. They have less info than I have been able to gather. No pictures either.
Have the Marriage Cerificates for two of the marriages.
The other family do not want to talk to us because they can't believe Grandfather did what he did.

Have checked all City, state, Federal records with all the names I have...nothing shows up. Same with Drivers licence and SS. At least under the names I know of.

However my Uncle was told he was Italian many times when he was young, but they would not tell him any information.
This uncle has tools he said was his fathers, the carvings on them say .. "AKS". I have not seen these tools.

My Mom was born in Jan 1936 Ipswich MA. So he was around in 1935.
Grammy was pregnant by him, they were married,,, only time anyone saw him go into a church was to get married.
Left her in a shack with a dirt floor. Showed back up at the birth of my Mom.
Grammy's brothers did not like him...so who knows what really happened.
They did not see him again until 10 years later when he wanted to see is daughter.

When I lived back in NH I did a lot of interviews. People knew of him but would not say a thing.
Though those that would of known about him are getting much older now,, fear that it will be impossible to get any info on him.

Tell ya what... that part of the family is a rather flamboyant one to say the least. :roll:

Would like to find my family name and my Great Grandparents names.
Have a feeling he may not of been legal in the USA.
I know there was/are lots of Italians in Gloucester MA....but no one seem to want to help.

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 05:47

Oh,, and I was told he had a scar on his stomach area. Not that is much help.

Also messed with his name a bit.. Saga... of course means story.
Winia.....can mean "Wine". Think he was playing a bit with his names? :roll:

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby vj » 27 Feb 2006, 06:48

A really wild guess:

1930 US Census
264 Main Street
Gloucester, Essex, MA

Al GOUIN (Alkin?)
Lodger, 42 yrs old, Divorced, b in MA, parents Fr Canadian
occupation: Cook - Lunch Cook?

Shari, do you have anything 1930 or earlier w/address?

vj

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby brujaojos » 27 Feb 2006, 07:54

Hi There,

Can you at least tell us his birth date and death date? It will help with searching.

Also, do you know the names of the women he married?

Thanks
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2006, 15:09

Shari wrote:Oh,, and I was told he had a scar on his stomach area. Not that is much help.

Also messed with his name a bit.. Saga... of course means story.
Winia.....can mean "Wine". Think he was playing a bit with his names? :roll:

Shari: also could be Seccavigna... phonicaly spell similar...from your previous topic I remember somethink, you can make here a concise resume about all data ( all names used/birthyears/wifes/children/ etc) that you have about Joseph Sagawinia? for to better help you... regards, suanj
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2006, 15:30

Shari, I see now your webpage and also the picture... for sure was a italian .. and also of good origin, because had very fine face.. the chin is tipically italian, and also the nose... perhaps of south Italy, but from Tuscany to sicily all regions are well for the birth a similar person.. suanj
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2006, 15:32

he was born abt 1893/1900 and no after.. and I think that I'm right...suanj
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 20:22

I honestly have no idea when he was born.
Used a wide year spread just to keep things open.

He died in 15 Sept 1953
Is in Beechbrook Cem Gloucester MA. The Death Certificate says he died when he was 45 years 8 months and 19 day. So this one born 1907/1908

My Mother's birth Certificate says he was 25 years old in 2 Jan 1936.
This one 1911...
Mom was born at the Cable Memorial Hospital. They do not have any records of my Grandfather there at least with the names I have.

Will have to dig out the marriage certificates as I do not remember what they say.

My Grammy is still alive...but she doesn't know any thing either.
Her name was Elizabeth Josephine Kelley Amirault.
Was told they met at a Carnival in Ipswich or Gloucester MA.
But haven't been able to get any where with that.

The Other wife who has now passed away but refused to say any thing about him was
Dorothy E. Daggett Winchester Sagawinia
She married him in NH But lived in Gloucester with him and the children they had.

Someone was pulling on the SS when I check goodness...12 years ago. Have been gone from NE that long. I have the number but there is no info on it at all....not even a birth year. It is under the name Sagawinia.

The place he worked for when he died Amela Tree Service made him take out insurance with Lyoyds of London. But with out the number I can't acess that information. This is when he was married to Dorothy.

Was told he was very tall and very handsome. Between 5'7" and 6' but then my Grammy was not a tall person.

Need to update Grandfathers web site since I now have proof that he was Italian.

VJ he is not French Canadian. The DNA says Italian. :wink: But Thank you.

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2006, 20:36

Hi, yes I understand.. you can see this ship's manifest:
Guiseppe Seccavigne (Seccavigna correct) pag 1 and page 2 and in particular the coloumnes 25/6/7?
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 20:51

Thank you. :D
Did take a look at that.. Is not impossible. :wink:
So what I need to do is try to find death Certificates of this name to see if there is one?
If none show up then proceed from there?

Makes it very hard to make sure I find the right family name.

I know there were lots of Italians from Southern Italy in Gloucester MA.

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2006, 21:26

Shari I searched about this surname, that was really existing...in Italy, and only this branche, no more Seccavigna in Italy.. and this let me understand that was only 3 brothers (Luciano, Giuseppe/Joseph, Rosato) and 1 cousin (Luigi/Luis), .. what it is interesting is that this Seccavigna peoples are missing totally..
no in all USA no in all Italy.. and why..?
when I read your topic I remember about Sagawinia, but now, with more attention I understood that "winia" is "vigna"(vineyard)and "Saga" is dialectal word, no italian saga=story, but Secca italian word mean=that it dries...

the picture of your ancestor really is no of a man 45 old but is more old, because the italian have a slow aging... so could be around 58 old as it seems from picture.... also about Aurora mother, is no a surname .. the mother really named Maria Aurora (2 first name)... in this Seccavigna people emigrated I no found nobody mentioning about the mother... it would be interesting to find this peoples in USA... the first destination was new York, but in 1912 a brother (Rosato) was in Bridgeport, CO... are also strange that your ancestor used a Joseph name and a Luis name and also both... and for 2 times he used a french surnames.. the face is very fine.. what you can make now is to search again... in Italian community of Gloucester ... this man had the friends... someone knowed he... to search again, and also to think about this Giuseppe Seccavigna... just a suggestion.... regards, suanj
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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 21:39

Sounds like they wanted to hide.
Grandfather was quite good at that.

Did some Census searching and can't find any one with that name. But if they changed names would make a lot of sense.

So it could be him.

I figured that he must be older than what he told people. But Thank you for confirming it. :wink:

My Mother had jet black hair right up until she was 60 years old. Even now she still looks much younger than she is.

I think he used French surnames because my Grandmother is French Canadian. Think he liked to blend in, that way no one would ask questions.

So what would be the best approach to find information on him?

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Re: OK DNA says my Grandfather is Italian now what?

Postby Shari » 27 Feb 2006, 21:58

What part of Italy was Ischia di Castro in? That way when I ask questions I can tell them. :wink:


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