Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor please

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jennym
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Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor please

Postby jennym » 28 Sep 2006, 16:14

:)
Hello I'm new to this list ,but am hoping for some help locating where in Italy my GG Grandfather Alfred Bernardo/Bernardi came from. Have been trying to crack this for many years.
From census (conflicting) information I have:
1861: Alfred Bremando ,servant,unm,M,17 yrs,born Preuben(Prussia) Enerwick. Living at 15 Porter St,St Anns,Westminster.
1871: Alfred Ranardo, Head,born 1841,Rovinia,Heaby(Italy),Joiner,Preuben(Prussia).Living at 10 Landfill Street,Hackney.
1881: Alfred Bernardo,45yrs,Hawker,Italian,British Subject. Living at 8 Orchard St,Islington.
1891: Alfred Barnardo,Head,wid,62 yrs,Chaff Cutter & Carpet Beater,born ITA.Living 1 Fords Cottage,Bolyne Rd,Islington.
1901: Alfred Bernards,85 yrs,Vegetable Hawker,born Italy,Italian Subject, Living 54 Jude St,Islington.

Alfred married Ellen Elizabeth Tott at St Peters Italian Church 13 June 1870 He was shown on marriage cert as Alfred Bernarde age 27 Occup. Ice Cream Maker, no name given for his father.Residing at 4 Summer St,Back Hill,Holborn. Witnessed by John Sterlini another Italian from Burdo F (according to 1881 census) a confectioner.
Alfred & Ellen were also Godparents to one of the Sterlini Children named Ellen at St Peters Italian Church but they were shown on baptismal records as Alfred & Ellen Benati.
Alfred died 5 Jan 1910 in West Ham. Buried in Walthamstow. Alfred Bernardo aged 69yrs.

Where is Rovinia or Ennerwick and why would an Italian be saying he was from Prussia on 2 census ?
He worked for most of his life as a Hawker in or around Islington and possibly at the Elephant & Castle.
His children were Eleanor Susanna born 1871,Jane born 1873,Alfred born 1876,Frederick William 1877,Louisa 1879, Alice May 1882. In case this helps with naming patterns.
Can anyone shed some light on this elusive ancestor of mine.
Many thanks for your time.
Jenny

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby suanj » 28 Sep 2006, 20:37

I believe that is Rovigno town ( italian name), currently in Croatia(Rovinj/Rovinja)... Rovigno was also under prussia power, so I believe that this town could be right... suanj
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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby nuccia » 28 Sep 2006, 20:50

This is Elizabeth in the Marriage index..

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Record
about Ellen Elizabeth Tott
Name: Ellen Elizabeth Tott
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Holborn
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 1025 (click to see others on page)

At this point I haven't found anything else but I'm still looking..

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby jennym » 28 Sep 2006, 22:04

Hello & thankyou to both Nuccia & Suanj for your answers,
Yes Nuccia that is the same one.
Suanj if it is Rovigno how would I go about contacting the town for confirmation. Alfred was born around 1840 but his age does vary census to census, I also know that he was not literate as he signed his marriage cert. with X and no fathers name to go on.
Thanks for all your time, I am quite excited to think that Rovigno ties into Prussian link from Census.
Best wishes
Jenny

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby wishyou » 29 Sep 2006, 03:25

"Rovigno was also under prussia power"

Ehm, suanj, Rovigno was never under prussian power. It was fits under Austrian and and after Austrian-Hungarian kingdom.
FOr a few time was also under France Empire.

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby jcsm400 » 29 Sep 2006, 07:44

Hi Jenny,

I thought you maybe interested in reading this...."A Brief History of Prussia"

http://www.kolpack.com/packnet/prussia.html

Map location of Rovinj, Croatia

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?la ... 8&size=big


The LDS Church (Mormans) has filmed the Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, and deaths for Rovigno, Istria, Italy; later Rovigno, Küstenland, Austria; now Rovinj, Croatia. Text in Italian and Latin.

Link to the available films (1553-1913).

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... a+knjiga++

Link to locate your nearest LDS-Family History Center.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... et_fhc.asp

A guide on obtaining these films.

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... =2581.html

And since these records are in Italian & Latin>>>

Italian-English genealogical word list.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... Italia.ASP

Latin-English word list

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... LLatin.ASP

If you have any questions, need anything such as help with translating, anything at all, please ask.....We will do our very best to assist you.

Let us know on your progress. Good luck.

jcsm

PS. I have yet to see suanj be wrong on a location, but remember, we here are humans., etc! :)
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby suanj » 29 Sep 2006, 13:35

wishyou wrote:"Rovigno was also under prussia power"

Ehm, suanj, Rovigno was never under prussian power. It was fits under Austrian and and after Austrian-Hungarian kingdom.
FOr a few time was also under France Empire.

oh yes was viceversa .. some austrian land under prussia.. rovigno was under austria, yes; Rovigno:

-until 1797 was under Venice republic ( Italy however..)
-from 1797 until 1805 under Austria power
-1805 until 1809 under Italy power
-from 1809 until 1813 under Napoleon power
-from 1813 until WWI° under Austria power


but I cannot understand because I find some emigrants coming from austrian territory.. and they said sometime prussian .. perhaps as people race and not as nationality.. or as language....

the people emigrated from Rovigno, for exemple, they said austrian for nationality and italian as race of people.. sometime, they said only italian as nationality, instead until WWI° Rovigno was austrian.. however my idea is that this ancestor of this search came from Rovigno...
best regards, suanj
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jennym
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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby jennym » 29 Sep 2006, 15:52

Hello & Thanks everyone for the helpful imput.
Will certainly check out maps and LDS and hopefully be ordering the film for Rovigno from the LDS.
Fingers crossed the translations will help me but if not I know that I can come back to you all for some further help.
Wish me luck I have absolutely no Latin or Italian experience. But feel that the confirmation of Prussia/Austria to Rovingno is a step in the right direction. :D
Best wishes
Jenny

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby jcsm400 » 30 Sep 2006, 01:09

Hi Jenny,

I do wish you the best of luck in your research! Keep us posted on your progress & your right......you can always get help here.

jcsm
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby gfavero » 30 Sep 2006, 23:30

hi wishyou, could you send me a p.m. with your e-mail? i'm having difficulties in using this site's messagging system.

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Re: Newbie: location help needed for Italian ancestor pleas

Postby nuccia » 30 Sep 2006, 23:40

With help using the message service..

Just click on the PM icon, then input the username of the person you want to PM, insert a subject and write your message. then hit send. Very similar to posting...

Hope this helps.

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