atto di nascita, unreadable!!

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sheronb
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atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 14:29

Today i went to my local LDS centre, to view 3 films form Sora,Frosinone, 2 films form the 1850s and one from 1872-6.while the 2 films from the 1850s had indexes, the 1872 one didnt!!

I have Lynn Nelsons book, where it says to find babies name in index, then go to relevelent page!!

On the 1872, no index, or info on pages like Lynn Nelson says, it was just paragragh, after paragraph!!

While i could make out the year, and sometimes month, i couldnt even see september for 1872, let alone make out a name!!

On the 1850s, i was looking for g,g,grandfather and had no joy from index.

Does anyone know, why the 1872-6 is like this?
I have got them for a month, so can go back next week, but am doubtful of finding info!!

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby nuccia » 17 Oct 2006, 15:29

You may want to contact member brujaojos..she is not only a genealogist but she volunteers at the FHL in New Jersey and may have an answer for you. :?:

There are several other members here who are familiar with the films as well..hopefully you will get a answer soon! :D

nuccia

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 15:45

ok,Nuccia, no hurry!!
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 17:04

I may have put this on the wrong thread/board??
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Syrlena
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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby Syrlena » 17 Oct 2006, 17:05

Hi, I wish I could help. I am also researching italian microfilms.
With reference to all the "paragraphs", are you sure they are the actual 1872 civil registers? I am asking because, in the microfilms I am researching, there are certain pages with information other than birth registers, such as iclusion of the name of the mother, ommited at the time of the the actual register (usually when parents were not married at the time) and some other changes or amendments on the registers.
Also, with reference to your grandfather, one possibility is that he was born in a comune near the one you originally tought he was from. This also happended to some members of my family.
Sorry I could not be more helpful.
I would suggest you talk to the volunteer at your local FHC. They might know somebody very familias with thouse types of registers near your location. Usually, they are very willing to help.
Usually it takes some time to get familiar with those microfilms.
Good luck and let me know.
SY

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 17:16

Hi Syrlena.

I did wonder if i had the wrong records, but it say atto di nascita,at top of 1st page.
It was nothing like the films i had there for the 1850,s, just really pages of writing, you could see the paragrapghs beginning with the date,and sometimes a bit extra in margin, like a stamp of a death of the person.

It was the Church of the Latter Days saints i viewed it at, and the staff though helpful, really dont know much about Italian records!!
And, even if he wasnt from Sora, i thought it would contain surrounding hamlets?

I think i may have to write to Italy to obtain birth records.
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 17:19

this is the film i had:


Nati 1872-1876 FHL INTL Film
1882999
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby jcsm400 » 17 Oct 2006, 19:15

The only explanation I can think of is that they didn't give the preprinted forms to fill in, so the records are all handwritten......Film notes does mention miscellanous documents......It may just need a lot of viewing to find the correct record and/or you may want to contact the city hall of Sora & request the record.

http://en.comuni-italiani.it/060/074/index.html

On this website, notice Sora localities...these would be in Sora films.....nearby towns would be different & would have to check LDS catalog for available.

Do you have parent names for your ancestor born in the 1870's? Male or female?

jcsm
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 19:29

jcsm400
Yes i do, im looking for Guiseppe Tuzio(Tuzzio) born 1872c in Sora, and his father Amadio, they both came to the uk, and i have all certs, on Amadios death cert from 1913, it states age 63.Now i was in contact with an Italian Reseacher, who confirmed a cousin, telling me,Sora, was the birthplace for Guiseppe, I cannot really afford to pay her fees to locate them, so am trying myself!!
In my book by Lynn Nelson, she states that almost all birth records have an index, so maybe im really unlucky to have one that isnt indexed!!
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby jcsm400 » 17 Oct 2006, 19:40

Ok, try requesting it from the city hall (email address provided on the website). If they don't have, try contacting the province archives & request his military information (military draft rcard= lista di leva)...this will have you the town of birth.

Province Archive

http://wwwdb.archivi.beniculturali.it/S ... OSINONE%22

Keep us posted on your progress.

jcsm
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 17 Oct 2006, 19:43

jcsm

Thank you, im going to compose email in Italian tomorrow and send email to town hall.

Do you know if it takes a while to hear from them, like what ive heard about writing to them?
Doesnt matter, hes not going anywhere is he!!lol

Thank you!!
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby Essgee » 17 Oct 2006, 21:18

Many of the early records are not indexed and hard. I know that some of the ones I have seen in the late 1860's and then for a number of years are written in long hand and horrible to read...but at least these are indexed. Not sure why your records are not. Maybe just missed them or did you check at the end of the microfilm? Sometimes index is there. In 1813 and 1814 both indexes are together and then have to skip a whole year to see the actual document. Thing just show up weird sometimes.

Usually the names of the person named in the act is in the margins. I guess in this case they are not. But the number of the act should be and based upon the total of the year, go to the number about 2/3's through the year and start with the first line there. The year and the date are the first listed, so look for Sept. or sometimes 7ber. The date may be in the first line or in the second. Once you can locate the date, move foreward accordingly.

It takes a lot of extra patience to find it in that kind of writing. But you can do it. The mayor or civil representative is the first name listed and then you will find the father or the midwife. If it is the father, this will give you the surname. If it applies, try and read the rest of the record. If not, go to the next entry. Sometimes if you can blow up the copy to very large...sometime on the printer at the library, you can try and read them that way.

There is no may to make it easier...only some support for understanding how difficult it is and knowing that you can do it.

Best of Luck.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby brujaojos » 17 Oct 2006, 22:22

Hi There,

Not all records are indexed. Some towns have indexes, some do not. What you are going to have to do is go through each record. However, once you get the hang of where to look for the names, it will make it easier for you.

The child's name is usually in the middle of the record. The Father's name is usually the "informant" and is in the top section of the record after the Mayor's name. However, sometimes the "mid-wife" is the informant and her information is listed. When this happens, the father's name is in the middle of the record along with the mother's name.

Also note that every so many years the records change their format. Plus, each town has its own format they use for the record.

Here is a copy of what a 1872 Birth Act should read. The words in Italic are where you would fill in the blanks for your own record.

If you have questions, just ask.
Trish

In the year one thousand eight hundred seventy-two, day twenty-two, of February, at the hour post-meridian three and minute thirty, in the Town House.

Before me, Giovanni Tapone Mayor, and the Official of Vital Records of the town of Caloveto, appeared Francesco Vennari, of age twenty-eight, farmer, residing in Caloveto who has introduced at the hour ante-meridian seven and minute five, of day twenty-one, of the current month, in the house on Via Santa Lucia at number thirty-eight, and Teresa Greco, his legitimate wife, seamstress, who live together

and born a baby of male sex which he has presented and has given the name of

Domenico

To this action which witnesses have been present, Pietro Santoro, farmer, of age thirty-six, and Pietro Vitale, of age twenty-nine, farmer, both residing in this Town. We therefore have formed the present act, which has been written and read and signed solely by me for the informant and witnesses are illiterate.

Giovanni Tapano, Mayor
Smile for me!:)
Trish
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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby jcsm400 » 17 Oct 2006, 22:45

sheronb wrote:jcsm

Thank you, im going to compose email in Italian tomorrow and send email to town hall.

Do you know if it takes a while to hear from them, like what ive heard about writing to them?
Doesnt matter, hes not going anywhere is he!!lol

Thank you!!



I've heard eveything from a couple of days to up to 6 months....Like you said, he isn't going anywhere......But do continue with the film....once you get the hang of it, you can do it (I can't read Italian, but have gotten the family back to the early/mid 1700's).....Trish's form will help......And remember , patience pays off :!: :) :)

Do you have the Italian genealogical word list?

jcsm
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: atto di nascita, unreadable!!

Postby sheronb » 18 Oct 2006, 05:59

yes, thank you for all your help,brujaojos desrciption, is exactly how it was!! you have to read the 1st line to get clues!! no dates in margin, nothing!!
I am going back next week, i have my book, facts from this iste, and believe it or not, i am actaully taking Italian lessons!!lol.
But i shall attempt it again, i went through the flm and no index.
Thank you for all your help!!
Tuzi/Lombardozzi/Polsinelli/Tersigni/La Rocca/Gismondi from Sora,Frosinone.


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