Dead End!! HELP!!

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Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby jjk_16_21 » 03 Nov 2006, 08:12

My quest for Italian Citizenship through my Great Grandparents have come to a hault for now. I have all the required documentation except for my Great Grandparents Marriage Certificate. I recieved a letter today from West Virginia - Catholic Church Archives and they said they could not find any records for Giuseppe Guarashio(Guarascio) and Rosie Scarcelli. I do not know what to do now. My Great Aunt told me that they got married in West Virginia in either 1930 or 1931. My Great Uncle was born in 1931 in West Virginia. So they had to have been married in WEst Virginia, I just dont know where exactly. I know they lived in Clarksburg and Mount Clare. I was wondering........does anyone else know of any other way to find out when and where my Grandparents got married besides requesting a marriage certficate? Would some other classified document have this information?

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby rfornal » 03 Nov 2006, 13:55

You might try a newspaper search..

Also, if you know where they lived and you've got relatives that are still around, see if they know what churches (or denomination) they went to (or were). If they were Catholic, you might look to the parishes in the towns they lived in for assistance.

Ask if anyone in the family has or had old bibles that you might look at. Young women often listed birth, marriage, death information.

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby wldspirit » 03 Nov 2006, 14:04

I've located numerous records for both surnames showing up in Harrison county, even a marriage for Giuseppe, but not to a Rose/Rosie......still looking to see if maybe the name was mis-spelled.......
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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby VaDeb » 03 Nov 2006, 14:25

Have you located both Joseph and Rose in the 1930 census? If yes, are they married or still single? This will narrow down the date. Do you know where and how they met? Could it have been in a different location? Your surnames may take some creative searching in the 1930 census.

Debbie

Note: Sorry, I didn't see your next request for a census look up. Finding these folks in the 1930 census is a good next step. I may have missed info on this family from other posts. What is the year of birth for Joseph and Rose?

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby wldspirit » 03 Nov 2006, 14:34

This is all I could pull up:

Result # Groom Bride Date County Image Size
1 Giuseppe Guarascio Antoniella Tiano 5 Sep 1908 Harrison 329 Kb
2 Frank Guarascio Teresina Basile 17 Apr 1909 Harrison 331 Kb
3 Salvatore Guarascio Anna Maria Iacones 13 May 1916 Harrison 323 Kb
4 Tony Guarascio Mary Arco 28 Jun 1947 Harrison 640 Kb

I've seen obituaries list dates of marriage.........did either of them have social security cards or recieve benefits, marriage info should be listed for childrens baptism......military records.....you might try these....
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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby VaDeb » 03 Nov 2006, 14:36

Here is another post on this topic.

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... =4853.html

Joseph filed his first papers in 1929 in Detroit according to this. Are you sure the marriage was in West VA?

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby rfornal » 03 Nov 2006, 14:58

Here's a third thread ... he was looking for a 1930 Census and looking at the other two threads, it's not the correct Census at all.

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... =5625.html

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby VaDeb » 03 Nov 2006, 17:08

Hi,

Its wonderful you have a Great Aunt who can share stories and information. Is she one of the younger children in the family? It is not uncommon to find a 25 year difference in the age of children in a family. Woman married and had first child when she was 20 and last child at age 45. If your Aunt is one of the last born children she might not be remembering events acurrately. Memories fade, and facts in families get distorted. The 7 months between the marriage and birth of a first child causes one event of the other to be "fixed". Perhaps the Aunt was never told the "real" story in the beginning. What you need to do is use the stories and memories of the Aunt as a guide to finding real facts and documents.

List all the events your aunt has given you in order with dates and places they occured. This will create a timeline. Then across from each event list the "fact" that proves it, or provides different informaiton. Add in all "facts" or documents you have. You should see a path for your research. Remember so evaluate each document.

Review where you are and let us know what direction you need help in.

Debbie

P.S. I did not mean to discount the church record advice above from Bob. Do you have a baptism record for the first born child? Some priests (if marriage was in a different church) will note the date and location of the parents marriage.

You haven't hit a brick wall until you have exhausted all sources. Don't give up.

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby wldspirit » 03 Nov 2006, 20:15

A guide to obtaining church records:

GUIDE to the LOCATIONS OF RECORDS

If you DO know the name and location of your ancestors' Catholic Church/Parish, and it still exists:
A friendly and precise request, for baptism, marriage, or funeral records, sent to the church office, may provide you with the desired records.
Your letter should include details of your ancestor, such as: name, birthdate, marriage date, etc. (If dates are unknown, try to give a close estimate of the dates.)
Please keep in mind that the work of the Church is ongoing, parishes may vary greatly in their staffing, and records may or may not be indexed by surname, therefore it is advisable to limit your request to two or three specific records.
If you DO NOT know the name and location of your ancestors' Catholic Church/Parish, or it no longer exists:
You will need to determine the parish to which your ancestor belonged, and this may involve some HISTORICAL DETECTIVE work on your part.
Their parish will likely be the local Catholic Church nearest their home (geographically). However, as time passed, and the population of an area grew (or diminished), there was often a need to build new churches, and establish new dioceses and parishes. Therefore, your research may require combining church HISTORY with GENEALOGY.
Example:
You would like a copy of your great grandmother's 1890 baptism record, and a phone directory shows there is a St. Mary's Catholic Church near her childhood residence, however, you were informed her baptism record was not found at that parish.
A bit of HISTORICAL DETECTIVE work may show that St. Mary's was not established until 1970, so your next step may be to try to determine which parishes existed in the area in 1890. Resources for this may include Diocese, Church and Parish histories, City Directories, Atlases (of the necessary era), local county and town histories, 1890s newspapers, etc.
These resources may also help you overcome some apparent "brick walls" in your genealogy. I found a "missing" funeral record after I learned that the Church was destroyed by fire, and during the year-long rebuilding period, parishoners attended a neighboring parish.
Now, you are ready to BEGIN:
You may use this guide site to help you determine the name and address of the parish church.
1. Begin by Selecting the Country of your ancestor's residence.
For example, you may choose the United States.
2. Select the area within the Country nearest the geographic location of your ancestor's residence.
For example, choose the state of Indiana.
3. Select the Archdiocese or Diocese in location that is nearest your ancestor. Many of the Archdioceses and Dioceses have web sites online which include a directory of the parishes within their jurisdiction. Many have also posted histories online. In addition to helping you learn more about the events in the Catholic Churches of the area, these Histories may be critical to locating your ancestor's sacramental records, since new dioceses may have been established and jurisdictions may have changed many times through the years, as new countries formed or areas were settled.
For example, the geographic area of Fort Wayne, Indiana was once included in the ecclesiastical province of Quebec among others.
4. Some of the parishes have web sites of their own. If your parish of interest has a web site, do visit the site which may include addresses, histories, photos, etc. of interest to you.
*Notes:
If you find that the parish church no longer exists, it is possible that the records have been transferred to the archives of the Diocese where the church was located. The Archivist at the Diocese Chancery2 may be able to help you to locate records.
Areas were/are often served by priests from another Catholic Church while they were/are developing and becoming more populated. These are called missions. Records for these may be able to be located at the parish where the visiting priests are established.
Additionally, copies of records for sacraments received later in life, such as, marriage, may traditionally be sent to the church where the person was baptized as well.

http://home.att.net/%7ELocal_Catholic/#type-records

Hope this helps.....
wldspirit

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby jcsm400 » 03 Nov 2006, 20:23

Perhaps they weren't married in a church. Try contacting the county (ies?) clerk.

http://www.vitalrec.com/wv.html#County

jcsm
Researching in San Vitaliano, Napoli, Italy & Armento, Potenza, Italy.

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby wldspirit » 03 Nov 2006, 20:30

This type of church record, if it exist in the parish of interest, may be helpful as well..........there is also further evidence of why a baptism record could help.......

Parish Census
As with civil enumerations, the quality of a parish census varies. Consider this gold mine from St. Cecelia, Sheldon Town, Wyoming County, New York: "Name of husband: Nicholas Majeris; wife: Catherina Reding; date and place of their marriage: August 1842, Vichten, Luxembourg; parents of husband: John Majeris and Catherina Reding (his mother’s name was the same as his wife’s); parents of wife: Peter Reding and Catherina Weber; names of other children: [five Majeris siblings and three Reding siblings are given]; date and place of birth: husband born March 1816, Usseldingen, Luxembourg; wife born April 1817, Vichten, Luxembourg; date they came to Sheldon: 1842; names of children born: [all are named, with dates and places of baptism]."

Baptism
Baptismal records usually include the date of baptism, date of birth, name of the child, name of the father, maiden name of the mother, parish of residence, and parents’ marital status. This is followed by the names of the godfather and godmother (sponsors), and sometimes their relationship to the child.

At baptism, a child was often given two names, at least one of which was a saint’s name. Both of these names may have been recorded. In some cultures, girls were given the name "Mary" and boys were given the name "Joseph." They were often called by their middle names, a confusing practice when both names were not recorded.

Confusion for researchers sets in when they discover that, when a child married, he or she stated a parent’s called name rather than the official name. Problems also arise in instances where a child was given the same name as an older living sibling.

A long interval between birth and baptism indicates infrequent priestly visits. A parish of residence that is different from where the act is recorded leads to another group of records to investigate.

The marital status listed on the baptismal record can possibly indicate the location of the parents’ marriage record. Legitimately married means that the couple was married by a priest. Legally married means that the couple was married by a Protestant clergy member or a magistrate.

Godparents were often chosen from the parental families, and family composition might be constructed from this information on the certificate. It is an honor to serve as godparent, and prominent community members often act in this capacity. Also, children are commonly given the name of a godparent.

So there is hope that with some detective work you can locate the marriage record......
Good Luck!!
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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby wldspirit » 03 Nov 2006, 20:31

Even if they were not married in a church, the Baptism records will make note of this.
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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby jjk_16_21 » 04 Nov 2006, 03:01

My Great Grandfather Giuseppe Guarascio was born in Calabria, Italia May 23rd 1904. His Parents are Tommaso Guarascio and Anna Maria Secreti. When Giuseppe came to America in 1913, he did not know how to write or speak English. He started writing his name as Joe Guarashio. The rest of his family including his brothers and sisters used the correct spelling....Guarascio. My Great-Grandfather married Rose Scarcelli in either 1930 or 1931. My Great Aunt its in her mid 50's and my Great Grandmother passed away recently in 2003. She told me that her mother told her stories such as their wedding was arranged, she thinks she got pregnant on her honey moon in which their first son Thomas Guarashio was born in 1931. My Great Aunt also told me that her first three siblings where born in West Virginia and then the rest in Michigan. So I am pretty sure that the marriage took place in West Virginia. In the 1920 census the family can be located under Tom and Mary Wash.

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby jjk_16_21 » 04 Nov 2006, 04:47

Here is some more information that could help hopefully..

Great Grandfather: Joe (giuseppe) Guarashio/Guarascio
born May 23rd 1904 in San Giovanni In Fiore, Calabria, Italia
Parents: Tommaso Guarascio and Anna Maria Secreti

Great Grandmother: Rosie Scarcelli
born July 12 1911 in Clarksburg, West Virginia
Parents: Giuseppe Scarcelli and Barbara IaQuinta

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Re: Dead End!! HELP!!

Postby brujaojos » 04 Nov 2006, 14:54

jjk_16_21 wrote:Here is some more information that could help hopefully..

Great Grandfather: Joe (giuseppe) Guarashio/Guarascio
born May 23rd 1904 in San Giovanni In Fiore, Calabria, Italia
Parents: Tommaso Guarascio and Anna Maria Secreti

Great Grandmother: Rosie Scarcelli
born July 12 1911 in Clarksburg, West Virginia
Parents: Giuseppe Scarcelli and Barbara IaQuinta


Hi Everyone,

Sorry if I am reposting information, but there are posts in different areas and I'm trying to kee tabs of every thing. So sorry again for the reposts.

Now here is the manifest the poster is talking about from 1913. Per this manifest, Anna Maria left her father, Giuseppe in Italy.They were going to go to see her husband/father, Tommaso in West Virginia. So we know the family was in WEst Virginia in 1913.

Page 1

Page 2

Now here is the WWI Draft Card for Tommaso. We know that the family was still in West Virginia around 1917-1918.

Name: Tommaso Guarascio
City: Not Stated
County: Harrison
State: West Virginia
Birth Date: 10 Apr 1873
Race: White
Roll: 1992486
DraftBoard: 2


Here is the Death information for the family. This way we confirm the dates.

Joe Guarashio 23 May 1904 Aug 1970 Garden City, Wayne, Michigan
Rosie Guarashio 12 Jul 1911 8 Jun 2003 Westland, Wayne, Michigan
Thomas Guarashio 23 Oct 1931 Feb 1989 Detroit, Wayne, Michigan

I'm still looking
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