Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

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hellosquire
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Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby hellosquire » 26 Jan 2007, 14:18

Hi!

This is my first post. I'm searching for a birth certificate for my great grandfather in order to apply for Italian dual citizenship. As far as I know, he came from the tiny commune of Bonefro, in Campobasso. As he died here in New Rochelle, NY, I was able to get his death certificate, and his wife's, photocopied.

His name is:
Pasquale Nardella
DOB: January 28th, 1879
Place: Bonefro, Campobasso ?
Death: April 17th, 1936 - New Rochelle, NY
His father: Antonio Nardella
His mother: Maria Mazella (Mazzelia?)

His wife is:
Anglea Maria Nardella (nee Cecere)
DOB: November 19th, 1875
Place: Bonefro, Campobasso ?
Death: March 7th, 1956 - New Rochelle, NY
Her father and mother: Antonio and Eugenia Cecere

I couldn't believe my luck when I found out he didn't attempt to naturalize until 1919 (my grandma was born in 1911 in the US, making me eligible for citizenship) as the Westchester Co. NY archives had his name listed for a declaration (spelt "Nardelle"), and after emailing them, I found out the date of birth matched! I'll be making a trip up there to get a copy of it, although considering his death certificate, I doubt it will verify the town he was from. The US authorities transcribing the data weren't very good with Italian spelling, I guess, and the death certificate only says he was from "Italy".

I'm not sure if there's any other data available regarding them, but I'd be amazed if I can find a birth certificate that old. Bonefro seems to be a tiny hamlet, and I doubt they'll still have the record. Has anyone had any luck getting a birth certificate that old? What do you think the chances are?

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby wldspirit » 26 Jan 2007, 14:52

Microfilmed records go back to 1809:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... ato+civile &columns=*,0,0

so any request should be fulfilled.
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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby ricbru » 26 Jan 2007, 15:29

hellosquire wrote:Hi!

This is my first post. I'm searching for a birth certificate for my great grandfather in order to apply for Italian dual citizenship. As far as I know, he came from the tiny commune of Bonefro, in Campobasso. As he died here in New Rochelle, NY, I was able to get his death certificate, and his wife's, photocopied.

His name is:
Pasquale Nardella
DOB: January 28th, 1879
Place: Bonefro, Campobasso ?
Death: April 17th, 1936 - New Rochelle, NY
His father: Antonio Nardella
His mother: Maria Mazella (Mazzelia?)

His wife is:
Anglea Maria Nardella (nee Cecere)
DOB: November 19th, 1875
Place: Bonefro, Campobasso ?
Death: March 7th, 1956 - New Rochelle, NY
Her father and mother: Antonio and Eugenia Cecere

I couldn't believe my luck when I found out he didn't attempt to naturalize until 1919 (my grandma was born in 1911 in the US, making me eligible for citizenship) as the Westchester Co. NY archives had his name listed for a declaration (spelt "Nardelle"), and after emailing them, I found out the date of birth matched! I'll be making a trip up there to get a copy of it, although considering his death certificate, I doubt it will verify the town he was from. The US authorities transcribing the data weren't very good with Italian spelling, I guess, and the death certificate only says he was from "Italy".

I'm not sure if there's any other data available regarding them, but I'd be amazed if I can find a birth certificate that old. Bonefro seems to be a tiny hamlet, and I doubt they'll still have the record. Has anyone had any luck getting a birth certificate that old? What do you think the chances are?


Hello,
since you want to apply for italian dual citizenship, you need to request their birth certificates (certificato dell'atto di nascita in formato plurilingue), writing a request in Italian to:

Comune
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Piazza Municipio, 1
CAP 86041
Bonefro (CB)
Italy


Write te request in italian and put it in an envelope+a self addressed envelope+an international reply coupon+a photocopy of your ID.
This way they know who is making the request and they don't spend the money to reply (sometimes vital record offices in Italy don't reply because they can't spend the money to do so!!!)
I hope it helps, bye Riccardo :lol:

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby hellosquire » 26 Jan 2007, 15:44

Wow, that's fantastic!

Thank you both for the info. I sure hope he's actually from there - his wife, my great grandmother, would always mention that she was "Bonefran" or something similar, so I'm pretty sure he's from that town. She died 20 years after him, so her stories were probably passed down and thus remembered by my relatives more often. Hopefully he is from there too, I'm sure he is, because it is an isolated and small village and considering their presumed poverty I can't see him being from somewhere else and them becoming a couple.

Here in New Rochelle, apparently there were a lot of immigrants from Bonefro, they were called "bunnies" by the other Italians here. I just hope their particular records weren't destroyed in some freak fire that seems to occur often around these documents :-D

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby ricbru » 26 Jan 2007, 16:00

If the documents from Bonefro Vital record office are not available because lost or destroyed, you need to receive a negative answer from them, and send another request to the church for bapt certificate wwith the seal of the bishop
bye Riccardo

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby wldspirit » 26 Jan 2007, 16:05

Have you attempted to locate a ship manifest for them? This may confirm the town of origin.
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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby wldspirit » 26 Jan 2007, 16:53

According to the 1920 census, he arrived in 1904, along with a brother in law, and the wife and children arrived in 1906.....can link if you are interested......

1920 United States Federal Census
about Pasqualie Nardella
Name: Pasqualie Nardella
[Pasquale Nardello]
Home in 1920: New Rochelle Ward 2, Westchester, New York
Age: 40 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1904
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 1063
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Pasqualie Nardella 40
Maria Nardella 45
Tony Nardella 18
Mary Nardella 14
Maria Nardella 11
Jennie Nardella 8
Cecue Michalleo 48
John Sylvestro 49
Tony Blanco 36

Link to the ship manifest of Angela which confirms town:
http://ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_wei ... &line=0021

She travels with the two older children on census.......

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby suanj » 26 Jan 2007, 17:49

Hi abt:
Mazella (Mazzelia?) right: MAZZELLA.. the other surnames are all corrects... moreover in Bonefro, for what I know the civil records are existing...I believe no problem for you.. good luck, suanj
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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby hellosquire » 27 Jan 2007, 07:53

wldspirit wrote:According to the 1920 census, he arrived in 1904, along with a brother in law, and the wife and children arrived in 1906.....can link if you are interested......

1920 United States Federal Census
about Pasqualie Nardella
Name: Pasqualie Nardella
[Pasquale Nardello]
Home in 1920: New Rochelle Ward 2, Westchester, New York
Age: 40 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1904
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 1063
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Pasqualie Nardella 40
Maria Nardella 45
Tony Nardella 18
Mary Nardella 14
Maria Nardella 11
Jennie Nardella 8
Cecue Michalleo 48
John Sylvestro 49
Tony Blanco 36

Link to the ship manifest of Angela which confirms town:
http://ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_wei ... &line=0021

She travels with the two older children on census.......

wldspirit


This is fantastic, thank you so much. I've honestly never received help of this quality in a forum, and I'm really grateful. I wouldn't of been able to find that manifest on my own, and I'm happy to know that the town is confirmed as Bonefro. I'd definitely like that link. I'm glad to know that the records are probably still intact in Bonefro, too.

Thanks! :D

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby wldspirit » 27 Jan 2007, 08:45

A manifest also needs to be located for Pasquale....
if another member has not linked the 1920 census before I next check in,
I will do so.....

This is one of the best forums on the net, members here go the extra mile and our willing to help out any way they can....... :D

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby suanj » 27 Jan 2007, 10:19

Hi: maybe this could be the ship's manifest of Pasquale; surname NARDELLI, born in Bonefro, age 23 in 1903, married, joining in New Rochelle to father in law: Celestino CECERE

http://ellisisland.org/search/shipmanif ... 2667050413
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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby hellosquire » 27 Jan 2007, 11:05

suanj wrote:Hi: maybe this could be the ship's manifest of Pasquale; surname NARDELLI, born in Bonefro, age 23 in 1903, married, joining in New Rochelle to father in law: Celestino CECERE

http://ellisisland.org/search/shipmanif ... 2667050413
regards, suanj


Thanks!! :D I'm sure that must be him. His date of birth on the death certificate lists January 28th, 1879, but from his tombstone and from the 1920s census provided here, there seems to be a discrepancy on whether it was 1879 or 1880. If he was 23 on the arrival of the boat on July 11th, 1903, than he was born in 1880, so either the ship manifest or the death certificate is right. The only document I had confirming the DOB was the death certificate.

And as for his father in law being named Celestino, the death certificate for his wife lists "Antonio Cecere". Then again, the US officials could've been mistaken too. I'm sure it is him, though, if he was joining a Cecere in New Rochelle :D

(Edited Post: I was able to download the browser image of the manifest, thanks :)

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby suanj » 27 Jan 2007, 11:35

here you can see the ship's manifest:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5820 ... llitg3.gif
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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby hellosquire » 27 Jan 2007, 11:41

Thank you so much! Perhaps Celestino is his brother in law; I can't quite make out the handwriting.

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Re: Success Rate for an 1870s birth certificate?

Postby nuccia » 27 Jan 2007, 12:46

Here is the link to the 1920 Census posted above!

1920 Census Pasquale Nardella

Hope it helps.
:D
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