3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

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3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Edmondo » 26 May 2007, 18:59

In the Church records (baptize 1876-1908) of Valle dell'Angelo (SA) I found 3 children all from the same mother but always with an unkown father.

I can understand it happens one time or maybe two times but 3 times?

Can there be another reason why the father(s) are mentioned like unknown?

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby JamesBianco » 26 May 2007, 19:59

I would bet that the townspeople knew who he was, but since he (obviously) was not married to the woman he maybe couldn't be listed? Perhaps he was married to another woman?

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby suanj » 26 May 2007, 20:03

Hi Edmondo, no inusual... some time also more times...
this because when a woman had a illegitimate child, she was " marked" as bad woman, and so the cases were two:

-or it continued living with the first man who refused to recognize the sons, because already married or because of noble family...........

- or, because "marked", every man thought well of easy sexual joining , it promised of to marry it... really the woman, in order to recover the lost honor ... she accepted, and it remained been involved in a second love story, a second pregnancy, and second abandonment;
the situation became still more difficult and these women in order to raise the sons, to times they adapted to whichever type of job, comprised the prostitution; even if the sons was abandoned and/or given in adoption, however for the woman the destiny was a bad destiny. Therefore the poor Italian women ( and ditto male relatives)defended the own( her) honor strongly, because, lost it, for they the destiny was very bad............. regards, suanj
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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Edmondo » 28 May 2007, 18:06

Thank you for your help.

After transcribing the 985 births between 1875 and 1908 in Valle dell'Angelo (SA) I noticed this is indeed not inusual.
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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Edmondo » 09 Nov 2008, 14:32

Again a question related to new born children with an unknown father.

When the mother of a new born child was known but the father was unknown the child got the surname of the mother.

In the case that both parents were unknown the child was given a surname like Fortunata, Speranza, Esposito etc...

I allways thought that the above was normal, but the period 1809-1850 in Valle dell'Angelo I notice that in many, but not all, cases the child of an unknown father was given a new surname also when the mother was known.
Also the mariage records of these children mention this new surname and the mother with her original surname.

Is what they did in Valle dell'Angelo something what happened also in other places, and why than did they use two different ways to handle a similar situation?

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby suanj » 09 Nov 2008, 15:00

this is strange dear Edmondo... you can post here some image of one of this cases?
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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Edmondo » 09 Nov 2008, 16:24

Hi Suanj,

I have to look for a clear sample and will post the images later.
One of the samples I have but will not post because it makes it only more difficult is two girls (twins). Their father was unknown and their mothers surname was Coppola but the girls got different surnames, Esposito and Marino.

To make it more difficult, the girl who was registered with the surname Marino later married using the surname Esposito :?

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Edmondo » 09 Nov 2008, 17:44

Here is a sample of a child born from Paolina Romano and unknown father. The name of the child Antonia Esposita

All birth records show always the complete name of the child including the surname on the first page and without surname on the second page.

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby Lucap » 09 Nov 2008, 19:25

I don't know which rules were followed before the establishment of the "Stato Civile" (1866)
and so I don't know if the surname was chosen by the registrar, anyhow on the right
column (filled up with the information given by the Priest) there isn't a surname (Esposita)
but a sort of status (esposita with the e minuscule): it's very probable that Espositi (or Esposito)
was the surname given then to Antonia (it was a very common custom) also if the mother
was well known, but presumably she couldn't keep the daughter and left her to a "brefotrofio"
(i don't know the correct translation).
Hope it helps.
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Luca

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Re: 3 x Padre incerto /Pater ignoto / Father unkown

Postby suanj » 09 Nov 2008, 20:56

Edomndo... I read Antonia esposita and not Antonia Esposita, as rightly, Luca precised... so esposita is not the given surname, but just the status of child born but not recognized from natural father.... I believe that the name is Antonia ROMANO... this is a birthact of 1826, and also here no name on the heading( spell..?) document, but is sure that the child have the father surname in this case, when a child is recognized only by mother having the mother surname.... all the best, suanj
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