Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

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Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby jjulian14712 » 05 Jun 2007, 14:32

Many of you on this forum seem to have a great deal of expertise, and our family would appreciate it very much if you could help us solve the mystery surrounding our heritage.

My grandfather left conflicting information before his death, but what we consider most accurate is this: According to military records, Frank Joseph Julian (or Gulian, or an Italian form of that name) was born in Rome, Italy in approximately 1895. He lists a mother by the name of Natiaro along with his siblings, all living in Rome. He came to America on the Verona, sailing from Naples and arriving at Ellis Island on April 1, 1909. My grandfather served in the U.S. Army during World War I, and fought in France. His injuries led to the posthumous award of the Purple Heart. During his lifetime, he claimed to be French, and it was only after his death in 1969 that our family found the military records indicating an Italian heritage.

Our family is very eager to solve this mystery, but we can't seem to make any progress, bcause it seems as if the answer lies in Italy. Any assistance you could lend us would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you,

Jeff Julian

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby JamesBianco » 05 Jun 2007, 15:19

I assume this is your grandfather:

Name: Frank Julian
SSN: 075-05-4426
Last Residence: 14048 Dunkirk, Chautauqua, New York, United States of America
Born: 15 May 1895
Died: Jan 1969
State (Year) SSN issued: New York (Before 1951 )

maybe this is worth looking at:

Here is a Francesco Giuliano born about 1891 and arrived into Ellis Island May 14, 1909 on The SS. Verona from Naples. He was a native of Pignataro (which oddy is the birthplace of my best friend's mother)

He left Naples May 1st, 1909

He left behind his mother Girolama back in Pignataro and is 18 years old. He was also on his way to Rochester, NY to meet his uncle Raffaele Sc......

Line #23 of this manifest.

What do you think?

Oh and one more thing, when you see Rome on a military record it does not necessarily mean Rome, but rather a close proximity. Pignataro is not very far from Rome.

Jim

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby jjulian14712 » 05 Jun 2007, 18:00

Jim,

Thank you very much for looking up information on my grandfather. The Frank Julian you found is definitely the correct one.

The entry from Francesco Giuliano appears to be very compelling, and it is definitely possible that he could have lied about his age, especially if he were traveling alone on the ship. The only reservation I have is that our family is fairly sure of the exact date on the Verona, and the Francesco Giuliano information takes place a month later. It's still close enough to be an extremely strong possibility.

Are you aware of any way to access birth records from Italy? There may have been a few people with variations on the Frank Julian name born in Italy on his birth date, but I can't believe there would have been too many.

Thank you again for your time and expertise. You can't imagine how important this is to our family.

Jeff Julian

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby suanj » 05 Jun 2007, 20:05

maybe the travel ship could be this:
Series Roll Volume Year Month Day Frame Text Ship Port FHL roll
1 T715 1232 2715 1909 April 2 161 text Verona Naples 1399916
suanj
Visit my website:
ITALIAN ORIGIN SEARCH

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby JamesBianco » 05 Jun 2007, 23:09

jjulian14712 wrote:Jim,

Thank you very much for looking up information on my grandfather. The Frank Julian you found is definitely the correct one.

The entry from Francesco Giuliano appears to be very compelling, and it is definitely possible that he could have lied about his age, especially if he were traveling alone on the ship. The only reservation I have is that our family is fairly sure of the exact date on the Verona, and the Francesco Giuliano information takes place a month later. It's still close enough to be an extremely strong possibility.

Are you aware of any way to access birth records from Italy? There may have been a few people with variations on the Frank Julian name born in Italy on his birth date, but I can't believe there would have been too many.

Thank you again for your time and expertise. You can't imagine how important this is to our family.

Jeff Julian


I did an Ellis Island search for The SS Verona and Giulian--plus any ending
Giuliano/i etc. and there were three arriving from Naples on a ship of that name in 1909, unfortunately this was the closest I could find date-wise, the other's were in December and July. It is just a possibility worth checking out, did your Frank perhaps have a daughter named Girolama? The oldest girl is most often named for the paternal grandmother.

Unfortunately there is not a centralized birth registry for Italy, the birth act was recorded on the town (comune) level and also a duplicate stored at the Province archive. You would have to be certain of the town in order to locate his birth record. However if we ever establish his exact manifest, it will (in 1909 at least) record his birthplace, even if he was not living there any longer.

I'll see what else I can find, and also you very well might have found the ship Rafaella!! Does anyone know how to look at a specific ship manifest? It seems like the online manifests are indexed only by name and year.

I will see what I can find!

:)

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby JamesBianco » 05 Jun 2007, 23:19

Here is a list of men your Frank Julian's age on the voyage Rafaella mentioned (April 2, 1909) SS. Verona (77 listings)

[align=justify]View Record Giuseppe Abbinante 2 Apr 1909 abt 1896 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Sbralino Alij 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Greek Verona
View Record Cheodoraeopulo Andrea 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Greek Verona
View Record Giorgio Argyriou 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Greek Verona
View Record Nicola Buono 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Verona
View Record Niclos Cacaulias 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Greek Verona
View Record Francesco Calvani 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvatore Capone 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Furnusco Carbone 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Santo Cardaci 2 Apr 1909 abt 1896 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Nadozio Coco 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giuseppe Corallo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Luigi Cortina 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Guiseppe Coutino 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Biagio Crother 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giuseppe Dastoli 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Parguale De Grande 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Antonio De Piano 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Silaidos Demihios 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Greek Verona
View Record Pasquall Depippo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Carmine Di Rubo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giuseppe Di Stefano 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Felice Emma 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Carl Esposito 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giovanni Esposito 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giuseppe Franchi 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Angelo Fuscaldo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Raffaele Gambino 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Aniello Genovese 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Agostino Gerard 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francesa Giliberto 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francisco Giordano 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Pietro Giuliani 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Antonio Groigeanni 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Autonio Lergi 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giuseppe Lettieri 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francesco Mancari 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Antonio Mancuso 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Guiseppe Mantella 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvatore Mascaro 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Ciro Menditti 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Guiseppe Milargo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Antonio Morgia 2 Apr 1909 abt 1895 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Filippe Niatra 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Vitantonio Nicastri 2 Apr 1909 abt 1896 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Raffaele Nommaro 2 Apr 1909 abt 1895 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvatore Oloyurpe 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Domenico Pacifici 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Aniceto Pagharolo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Guiseppe Petitto 2 Apr 1909
View Record Germano Pietrarassa 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francisco Pignataro 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Pietro Plavni 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Nicola Polisena 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvestor Portertto 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Carmelo Preseimone 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francesco Qoaterno 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Carmine Rio 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francisco Riso 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Nicola Sabella 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Gio Muni Santon 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Vittorio Scarselletti 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Stefano Secortino 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvatore Setia 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Luigi Sile 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Andrea Smisgalli 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Domenico Tenattroechi 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Bruno Todarello 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Luigi Tozzi 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Mario Tozzi 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Augelo Vari 2 Apr 1909 abt 1895 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francero Vari 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Francisco Vasco 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Nuregin Vasta 2 Apr 1909 abt 1894 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Vincenzo Vieillo 2 Apr 1909 abt 1893 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Salvatore Vinerzza 2 Apr 1909 abt 1897 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona
View Record Giovanni Yacobellis 2 Apr 1909 abt 1895 Male Naples, Italy Italian (South) (Italian) Verona [/align]

If you wish to see any of them in detail, just let me know and I will upload the image.

Quite a list! I did not specify any name, just any male born between 1893-5 and arriving on The SS. Verona 2 April 1909

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby jjulian14712 » 05 Jun 2007, 23:33

My grandfather's name might be on that manifest somewhere! I just wish I could determine which one was really him. Thank you very much for the information!

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby misbris » 05 Jun 2007, 23:36

I found this one. Name is wrong, but age is better. He was travelling with his father Paolo and going to Attica, NJ. I could not read the rest of the manifest, but it does give a mother's name.


First Name: Pietro
Last Name: Giuliani
Ethnicity: Italian South
Last Place of Residence: Morolo, Roma
Date of Arrival: Apr 02, 1909
Age at Arrival: 15y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Verona
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0028

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby JamesBianco » 06 Jun 2007, 00:51

misbris wrote:I found this one. Name is wrong, but age is better. He was travelling with his father Paolo and going to Attica, NJ. I could not read the rest of the manifest, but it does give a mother's name.


First Name: Pietro
Last Name: Giuliani
Ethnicity: Italian South
Last Place of Residence: Morolo, Roma
Date of Arrival: Apr 02, 1909
Age at Arrival: 15y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Verona
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0028


He's on that list I posted, i agree he is definitely (at the very least) related, but also possibly Frank Julian himself. Here are the images for anyone who wants to help: (line 27)

Pietro Giuliani Page 1

Pietro Giuliani Page 2

How does final destination Utica, New York sound ?

Thank you misbris :D

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby Essgee » 06 Jun 2007, 01:16

1. He could have traveled on one ship, but was detained at Ellis Island. Then entered the US sometime later, meaning that he would then be listed on a manifest of a ship entering the US the same day he arrived at the port of New York, not the original ship he sailed on. So James might have the correct listing.

2. Name could be di Julio or d'Iulio as well.

3. If he fought in the war, no doubt he became a naturalized citizen. Look for his naturalization documents: Declaration of Intent, Petition for naturalization, etc. This will give the ship he arrived on, when, and the specific place he came from.

I know you want to know the boat he came on....but if you find out where he came from from his own naturalization papers, it might be enough for the time being.

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby jjulian14712 » 06 Jun 2007, 02:05

Thanks to all of you!

I'm looking at his declaration of intention, and this is what he lists: Frank Gulian; Born in Rome, Italy on May 15, 1894. Emigrated frm Naples, Italy on or about April 1, 1909.

My grandfather filled out this form 8 1/2 years after he came to America, and he obviously got at least one small detail wrong about the ship. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

If the Verona arrived on...

April 2, 1909 - His real name could be Pietro Giuliani. (Age 15, born in 1894)

May 1, 1909 - His real name could be Francesco Giuliano. (Age 18)

April 1, 1910 - His real name could be Francesco Giuliani. (Age 17)

Are the lists for the ship complete? Is there any way his information could be closer to what he claimed?

Thanks again for your time and effort!

Jeff Julian

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby Essgee » 06 Jun 2007, 02:27

Don't forget Rome is a Province as well as a city. He could be from "Rome" but not necessarily the city....

However, given that Rome is on his DI, I would start with that and see what I could find.

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby misbris » 06 Jun 2007, 02:28

Did anyone else notice the line through the name in the May 1, manifest?
Is it possible Francesco did not travel at that time?

Jeff do you have any idea of where he first lived on entering the US? Or any family that might have been here? The slightest clue could be helpful.

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby Essgee » 06 Jun 2007, 02:33

This appears to be his WWI registration...again, states Rome. Name should begin with a "G" as "J" not a letter in the Italian alphabet, usually only used in "foreign" words in the Italian language...

http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx= ... id=1368499

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Re: Frank Joseph Julian From Rome? Please Help!

Postby jjulian14712 » 06 Jun 2007, 02:51

To the best of our knowledge, upon arriving in America, my grandfather became a farmhand on the Osbourne farm on Van Buren Road in Pomfret, NY. He apparently remained there until he entered World War I. After the war, he bought a farm in Sheridan, NY and then Dunkirk, NY, where he raised his family until his death in 1969. Before he married my grandmother, Mary, and raised his family, he was married to Flora Stilson (who was much, much, older than him) until her death, producing no children from that marriage. He gave no indication of relatives in America, but he told everyone, including his family, that he was born and raised near Albany, NY and was of French descent.

Thanks again for your help!

Jeff Julian


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