Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

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Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby jenalonso » 30 Aug 2007, 16:32

I am trying to decide what rolls to pull from the FHL in Utah.

Can anyone give me a "safe range" of years to search for a women who (I think) had her first child in 1876?

I was thinking 13 to 22? Does that sound like a safe bet?

Thanks!
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 30 Aug 2007, 17:09

normally 20 years(but sometime also more)
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby Emmy » 30 Aug 2007, 17:16

Sorry, That's a difficult one to answer. I think I would have said 14 would be the earliest but its difficult to judge the upper age range.
Would just be luck if you ordered the correct film.

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 30 Aug 2007, 17:18

for to marry before of legal age was necessary a bishop permission and for serious cause...
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby Emmy » 30 Aug 2007, 17:26

Suanji
Do you know what was the legal age was for a girl to marry in 1879?
I didnt realise there was a rule about this at that time.
Be very grateful for any information on this.
Emmy

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby jenalonso » 30 Aug 2007, 17:32

Yes, me too! What was the age!? :)
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 30 Aug 2007, 19:53

I remember that was of 18 old... but I can be wrong...
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby Essgee » 30 Aug 2007, 20:39

I believe that the legal age was 21 until sometime in the 1970's...then it was 18.

You would do well with 20 to twenty five years. You can estimate it by the father's age on the birth document of 1879. Often she was younger. If he is really old, think of someone older then 21 as his first wife most certainly died.

If The father is about the age of 21 to 25 she would probably be within that range...and sometimes maybe a bit older. It seems that the younger the father, the more likely she is to be older...at least in the records I have seen.

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby jenalonso » 30 Aug 2007, 20:53

Thanks Essgee, but I'm not sure I understand everything you said.

First, I don't have the birth record for her brother, born in 1876. (not sure which birth doc you mean)

Second, I don't know of any other wife. I think she was the only one.

Am I misunderstanding you?
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby Essgee » 30 Aug 2007, 22:32

jenalonso wrote:Thanks Essgee, but I'm not sure I understand everything you said.

I was running out the door and posted too quickly--my apologies

First, I don't have the birth record for her brother, born in 1876. (not sure which birth doc you mean)

I was basing it on the fact you had the birth record of the brother. If you don't have a copy, you simply have to guess.

Second, I don't know of any other wife. I think she was the only one.

Didn't mean to imply there was more then one wife. What I was saying was if the father was old at the birth of a first son, it didn't always mean the wife was older as well. Widowed men often married much younger women. Since you don't have the actual birth record, the question is moot.

Am I misunderstanding you?

Not really. I was giving more information then you needed. If it were me, I would order the birth record of the brother first so you have some number to work with...and because there is a good chance the film containing his birth will contain the births of other siblings as well.

Secondly, if the brother is the first born, you could choose to order the marriage records for the couple...the birth being probably within 2 1/2 years of the couple's marriage. This would give you the exact ages for the bride and the groom as well as the parents of each.

This is important because the names repeat often. You can have a couple of children born within months of each other that carry the same name. It is important you know the names of the specific parents.

This is probably more info then you want, and you will probably be just as lucky finding it by guessing. My problem with that is guessing can take you off the track and it will often take time to notice it. It happens. I don't know how familiar with the records you are, how many you have obtained from the films. I just know that mistakes are abundant when you try and rush the proceedure. Yes, you can be lucky and get it the first time. More often, the more careful at the beginning, the better you are as you go along.

Anyway, forgive me for confusing you, I had not intended to do that. Only to suggest things to consider when attempting to guess at an age of the mother.







PS. If you order the processetti records, you will get all the records filled out for marriage...including a birth certificate for the bride and groom. This often is a bonanza of information. Beats the marriage records alone.

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 31 Aug 2007, 04:35

the legal age changed in the time..., and second the Italian area.. in the south::
in the XII/XIII centuries and more ...
-"Caltagirone (23) in Ibid., p. 283. Il conseguimento della maggiore étà a 18 anni è stabilita da Federico II con la costituzione De restitutione minorum (II, 42)"
http://www.stupormundi.it/donne_giurisp ... ievale.htm

-"Bonaparte impresse la propria impronta al Codice, ristabilendo la potestà dei genitori in seno alla famiglia, ma anche (la cosa appare inconcepibile ai nostri giorni) il passaggio della donna dalla sottomissione al padre alla sottomissione al marito, non potendo ella compiere alcun atto giuridico senza il suo accordo, né amministrare i propri beni o esercitare liberamente una professione di sua scelta. La maggiore età (e libertà di contrarre matrimonio) si raggiungeva a 25 anni..."

http://www.kultunderground.org/archivio.asp?art=4339

and in 1846: it was of 21:
"La maggiore età venne fissata per uomini e donne a 21 anni."
http://www.maat.it/livello2/1849-repubblica-romana.htm



but if the woman was a girl of 14 or 13 it was necessary the bishop permission ( and also the parents consent as for all women more young of 21)
so around 1879 it was of 21, essgee correct, yes!

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby jenalonso » 31 Aug 2007, 12:01

Essgee:

Thanks for clarifying! And don't worry - it's never more info than I want! :)

Suanj, thanks for that info.

So I'm thinking that most of the girls waited to get married?
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 31 Aug 2007, 13:06

second the economic situation of the family... much poor, more young married...
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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby Emmy » 31 Aug 2007, 13:46

Thank you Suanj
Maybe that's why there are confusing dates about my grandparent's marriage. On one document I have they say they were married in1879 but she would only have been 18 years old at that time, they had a child in 1881 and another in 1883 then on their birth acts it says they were married in 1883 she would have been 22 years old then- maybe they didnt get permission to marry when she was 18.
Did they require permission from both sets of parents.?
My grandmother was illegitimate would the mothers consent have been enough?
Suanj Thanks for all this information
(Sorry about butting in on your post Jen but I thought some of this information may be relevant for you as well.)
Emmy

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Re: Age of woman having first child in 1860's?

Postby suanj » 31 Aug 2007, 14:25

on your grandmother birthact, it is marriage note in 1883? and the children born in 1881 and 1883? and in another document the marriage year is 1879...? as it is possible this confusion? if both the spouses was in minor age , it was necessary the consent of both parents( of bride and groom)
however, when a person had no the father, the mother consent was enough, yes...
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