Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family.

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jeffreylocke
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Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family.

Postby jeffreylocke » 07 Oct 2007, 18:22

Hello Everyone

You guys have helped me a great deal and now I wonder if you have any suggestions for this dilema...........

Usually when I am lucky enough to find an ancestor’s ship manifest, it lists either town of birth or last town of residence.

I have an ancestor where neither of those is listed. Guiseppe Papa is in the 1910 Census for New York. I am fairly certain this is him because some people named MORETTO are enumerated there, and Guiseppe’s wife is MATILDA MORATTA. I have noticed before that names don’t always match up exactly, but I have a feeling this is him.

Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Bronx, New York, New York; Roll: T623 1126; Page: 1B; Enumeration District: 1014.

Later, in 1930, he and Matilda and all their kids are listed in census for the New Haven area, where I live. I am sure this is him!

In both censuses, Guiseppe says he came here in 1897 and I believe his birth year is about 1866. There is indeed a Guiseppe papa who came here on the ship KARAMANIA on April 22, 1897-----But, there’s not a birth place or town where he was from.

I am sure this has happened to other people. What is the best thing to do?

Matilda supposedly came that same year but I am not sure if Matilda was her actual name.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Jeff and Lori-Ann

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby Essgee » 07 Oct 2007, 18:35

A lot of the early records didn't have more then the coutry of origin. Sometimes you got lucky and got more. Only after 1906 were the maniests expanded and included place of birth...usually the town...and last residence.

Have you found a WWI registration for him? May give place of birth.

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby BillieDeKid » 07 Oct 2007, 18:44

Hi Jeff,

If you know what cemetery he and Matilida are buried at you can ask for the records and it will (or should) list his birthday, town and country of birth. Also his parents names. Same for Matilda.

That is how I got alot of my information to get me started.

Elizabeth

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby wldspirit » 07 Oct 2007, 18:47

Could be Mafalda or Matilde.....here are two sites which will give you variations of names.....

http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ita3.php

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Poin ... ename.html

wldspirit
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pink67
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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby pink67 » 07 Oct 2007, 19:36

Ciao Jeff!

Want to show you this Arrival manifest for Giuseppe Papa (arrived June 14, 1899) because this man was travelling with others Moretta... the age don't matches because probably is 1879 but it seem strange these last names all together....
They went from Monticelli Esperia (think today is Esperia in the Frosinone Province, Lazio region)

Image


Hope this can help!!
Laura :)

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby jeffreylocke » 07 Oct 2007, 20:11

Laura,

I think you are on to something. I took another look at my charts and the info I have on this family from here. His oldest child was JULIA born here in CT in 1902.

Using the census birth date of 1866 for Guiseppe Papa, that would make him 42 when the first child was born, which seems like a late start to me. It would also make him twice the age of his wife.

I found Matilda in the death index for CT and it says ahe was born in 1882. If she had come over here in 1897 as the census said, she would have only been 15.

Someone suggested I check the WW registration cards. There is a Joseph Papa in there but his age doesn't add up to being the same one. He is likely a relative though.

I have new things to think about. I was hoping to get info on this line before Christmas as a gift or someone in the family. Thanks for everyone's input!

Thank you

Jeff

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby vj » 07 Oct 2007, 23:32

Hey Jeff!
Is this the correct family?
Valarie

possible 1930 census
Home in 1930:
Hamden, New Haven, Connecticut
Joseph Papa 61 (abt 1869) IT, immig 1897 Al
Matilda Papa 49 (abt 1881) IT, immig 1897
- (SSDI 24 May 1882)
children all born in CT
Julia Papa 28
Anthony Papa 24
Mary Papa 20
Rose Papa 18
Josephine Papa 16
Anna Papa 12
John Papa 11
Antonette Papa 9 11/12
Louise Papa 4 7/12
---

edit: added 1910
possible 1910 census
Home in 1910:
Hamden, New Haven, Connecticut
Joe Tarp 36 (abt 1874) IT, immig 1894 Al
- married 10 yrs
Matilda Tarp 27, immig 1895
- 5 children born, 5 children living
James Tarp 9
Julia Tarp 7
Lewis Tarp 6
Tony Tarp 4
Mary Tarp 10/12
---

possibly married in CT?
possible 1900 census
Home in 1900:
Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut
Joseph Pappa 30, Nov 1870 IT, immig 1892 Al
- married 1 yr (bet 1898-1899)
Matilda Pappa 17, May 1883 IT, immig 1894
brother Willia Pappa 24, immig 1898

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby gerald325i » 11 Oct 2007, 18:23

Looking at a map of surnames could give you a starting point. I know that Papa shows up a lot in Sicily... and I come up with lots of them looking at Cefalu.

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Re: Birth place not listed on Ship manifest??? PAPA family

Postby Eleven » 14 Oct 2007, 04:06

If you didnt, already, send for his death certificate. I had the same problem with my husbands grandfather. The ship manifest gave no town. I found the town name on his death cert.


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