Old florentine families!!

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mauricioom
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Old florentine families!!

Postby mauricioom » 16 Feb 2008, 20:59

Hi,
I'm Mauricio, i posted a while back, but i didn't have anything to help you help me! :P

I recentely found an investigation by Rafael Fantoni PhD called: "Linajes nobles, emparentados y relacionados con Valdepeñas" made in Spain, about the Fantoni family with its origins in Florence.

I've compiled the info on that investigation to my genealogy tree: Genma Francisca Bucarelli i Federighi Ranieri i Fantoni's ancestry

I hope you can help me out to verify this info, 'cause, as an example, i can't find any daughter of Phillipo Strozzi and Clarice de'Medici with the name Ginevra!

They all were patrician families, with actual historical connections to all the powerful florentine families...

family names are: FEDERIGHI, FANTONI, BUCARELLI, RANIERI/RINIERI, ZATI/ZATTI, PITTI, CANIGIANI/CANAGIANI/CANIAGANI, TORNAQUIBI/TORNACUENCHI/TORQUECUANCHI, PERI, AMBROGI, STROZZI, MEDICI.... all the surname variations that i listed are taken from different sources, most italian familiy's surnames changed when they settled in Seville, so there's loads of variations.

Thanks guys, i'll be waiting for your input :D
Mauricio

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 16 Feb 2008, 21:56

Hi Mauricio,

I looked at the link for your tree and you are showing maria Ginebra in the tree.............but you say you can't find her as the daughter of Phillipo Strozzi and Clarice de'Medici. I'm a bit confused as to why her name is in your tree, where did you get info suggesting she is their daughter?

Do you have information from the 1600's forward into the 18 and 19 hundreds?

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby mauricioom » 18 Feb 2008, 01:00

Hi Billie!
Well yeah, most of that info, mainly the info on the Fantoni branch (including Ambrogi, Medici, Strozzi) was taken from this investigation: "Linajes nobles, emparentados y relacionados con Valdepeñas"... copy + paste this in your browser, but it is in spanish :wink: dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/fichero_articulo?codigo=2142868&orden=71739

It was made by a direct descendent of the Fantoni family who is a world renowned genealogist...

But i can't find a citation or source from where he got this Maria Ginebra being daughter of Phillipo and Clarice.. specially weird 'cause i can only find reference to 10 children of this couple:

Pietro Strozzi (morto nel 1558), condottiero, sposò Laudomia di Pierfrancesco de' Medici
Roberto Strozzi (m. 1566), Barone di Collalto e nobile Romano, sposò Maddalena di Pierfrancesco de' Medici
Maria Strozzi, sposò Lorenzo Ridolfi
Leone Strozzi (m. 1515), Cavaliere dell'Ordine di Malta
Giulio Strozzi (m. 1537)
Vincenzo Strozzi (m. a Roma nel 1537), impazzì
Alessandro Strozzi (m. 1541)
Luigia Strozzi (m. avvelenata 1534), sposò il Senatore Luigi Capponi, patrizio di Firenze
Maddalena Strozzi, sposò Flaminio Conte dell'Anguillara
Lorenzo Strozzi (1523-1571), abate e cardinale

Estratto da "http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarice_de%27_Medici"

I have info all the way to myself here

I hope i'm getting through 'cause my english is getting rustier by the second..

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 18 Feb 2008, 04:31

Hi Mauricio,

This might be a silly question, but is there a way to contact the genealogist that is citing Maria Ginebra in his research?

I've looked at the link you've provided starting with you. And I think my first question would be............do you have actual birth acts (certificates) and marriage banns (certificates) for everyone in your own research? The only way to know for sure is to have these documents as proof of your heritage.

Maybe if you can contact the genealogist that is a direct descendent of the Fantoni family, and ask for copies of the documents or ask where he/she obtained the documents. If from particular churches or civil offices, maybe they can tell you where to write. Otherwise you will have to post on the forum the comune and/or region where each person was born and married and someone here will be able to provide you with address to write for requests.

I'm sorry I'm not much help at this point, but as I said, if you can provide the comunes etc. I believe that people on the forum will be able to help you.

And your english is very good, not rusty at all!!

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby mauricioom » 18 Feb 2008, 18:57

Billie!
Thanks again for writing back,
Well, i don't have all the copys of the marriage/birth/death/baptisim certificates, but most of MY info has been taken from old papers that state this relations, like "Expensas Matrimoniales" (i dunnno if there's such thing in other countries, but at least in Latin America and Spain the church usually asked for proove that the petitioners of a wedding license were of "clean blood" -not jewish, muslim, indigenous etc..) were they usually wrote their own family tree with dates and all, i've also taken infor from PARES wich is a database for really old Spanish Archives, like Inquisition documents, Nobilty papers, Court documents...

I usually check my info in 3 different documents to actually believe that someone was the son of someone else, as an example, i used about three different sources from where it was stated that Luis Federighi Fantoni was the husband, and uncle of Genma Bucarelli Federighi...

I know it doesn't have the same value as an actual certificate, but i've been stoped loads of times by church records that were burned or misplaced so i have to get all those "alternative" sources 8)

I'll try to contact Doctor Fantoni, but i probabbly won't get a answer :cry:

Anyways if i do get an answer i'll ask about the individual comuni where they were born, and that way ask for direct help from those who investigate those exact places...

That will surely take years hehe, but who said genealogy was quick uh?

Mauricio

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 18 Feb 2008, 19:56

Hi Mauricio,

I understand about the marriage records. I didn't know if these records would contain comune's or villages of birth.

Maybe Dr. Fantoni will surprise you. When you contact him/her include your findings about yourself (your tree) and aks if it's possible to look it over for you to make sure of the family connection(s) and also about Ginebra. I think you might get an answer, lets see what happens.

If you can get the names of the comunes and/or the churches used for the sources I'm sure someone here can help you with the addresses and the letters (properly formattd) to make your requests.

I hope it doesn't take years to get the answers!!! You have a lot of great information to go on. I'm still searching for additional information for you.

Don't give up!!!

Elizabeth

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 19 Feb 2008, 04:50

mauricioom wrote:I hope you can help me out to verify this info, 'cause, as an example, i can't find any daughter of Phillipo Strozzi and Clarice de'Medici with the name Ginevra!
Thanks guys, i'll be waiting for your input :D
Mauricio


Ok, now I'm making a little progress. Genf / Ginebra / Geneva / Ginerva is not the name of a child it's the name of a place. Genf / Ginebra / Geneva / Ginerva are alternate names for the same place.

Here is a link for the Medici Archive. You can find names, dates, documents etc. You can also contact The Medici Org and ask them any questions you need answered about your family lines.

Please let me know how this turns out. I think this link is where you will find what you need. :D

Main link
http://www.medici.org/jewish/docs.html

secondary link for searching names.....use the second search box not the google box. I put in Fantoni and got information for Agostino and Stefano
http://www.medici.org/search/

Regards,
Elizabeth

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 19 Feb 2008, 23:18

Strozzi family
Strozzi is the name of an ancient and noble Florentine family, which was already famous by the 14th century. Palla Strozzi (1372-1462) played an important part in the public life of Florence, and founded the first public library in Florence in the monastery of Santa Trinita. Filippo Strozzi il Vecchio (1428-1491), son of Matteo Strozzi and of Alessandra Macinghi is credited with initiating construction of the Strozzi palace in Florence.

Filippo II (1488-1538) is probably the most well known member of the family. Although married to Clarice de' Medici, a daughter of Piero di Lorenzo de' Medici and member herself of the Medici family, he was vehemently opposed to the hegemony the Medicis had acquired as the unofficial rulers of the Florentine republic and was among the leaders of the uprising of 1527.

After the republic was overthrown in 1530 Alessandro de' Medici attempted to win Filippo Strozzi's support, but Strozzi declined and instead retired to Venice. After the murder of Alessandro in 1537 he assumed leadership of a group of republican exiles with the object of re-entering the city but having been captured and put to the torture he committed suicide.

Filippo Strozzi's older son Piero (1500 - 1558), fought in France against Italy and Spain, and was made a Marshal of France in 1554. He took part in the French siege of Calais (1557), and died of wounds incurred in battle at Thionville, in Lorraine, in 1558. The younger son Leone (1515-1554) was a distinguished admiral in the service of France and fought against the Medici. He died of a wound received while attacking Sarlino in 1554.

Filippo di Piero Strozzi (1541-1582) served in the French army, and was captured and killed by the Spaniards at the Battle of Terceira.

Senator Carlo Strozzi (1587-1671) formed an important library and collected a valuable miscellany known as the Carte Strozziane, of which the most important part is now in the state archives of Florence. He was the author of a Storietta della città di Firenze dal 1219 al 1292 (unpublished) and a Storia della casa Barberini (Rome, 1640).

It is unclear whether Bernardo Strozzi (c.1581-1644), a prominent and prolific Italian Baroque painter born and active mainly in Genoa and Venice, was a part of this immediate family.

Until its exile from Florence in 1434, the Strozzi family was by far the richest in the city, and was rivaled only by the Medici family, who ultimately took control of the government and ruined the Strozzi both financially and politically. This political and financial competition was the origin of the Strozzi-Medici rivalry. Later, while the Medici ruled Florence, the Strozzi family was ruling Siena. Florence attacked Siena at that time, which caused great animosity between the two families. Soon afterwards, the Strozzi married into the Medici family, essentially giving the Medici superiority.

The Strozzi acquired by marriage the titles of Princes of Forano and Dukes of Bagnolo. The Strozzi palace belonged to the family until 1907 when it was bequeathed by will to the Italian nation.

Today, the Strozzi family lives on in America known as the Strotz family. Members live in Wisonsin, Illinois, and Washington, DC and include former President of Northwestern University Robert H. Strotz.


References
Bardi, Filippo Strozzi (Florence, 1894)
Niccolini, Filippo Strozzi (Florence)
Guasti, Le Carte Strozziane (Florence, 1884-1891).
"Other Women's voices" [1]
Wittkower, Rudolf (1993). "14", Pelican History of Art, Art and Architecture Italy, 1600-1750, 1980, Penguin Books Ltd, p 351-2.
This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, a publication now in the public domain.
Categories: Italian surnames | Strozzi | Italian Renaissance | Families of Florence

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 20 Feb 2008, 17:31

Mauricio……resources you may want to check……..

Libro d'Oro della Nobilta Italiana. Istituto Araldico Genealogico Italiano.
Biblio. Storica Araldica, Genealogia Guelfi.
Collegio Araldico. Istituto Araldico Romano
Consiglio Araldico Italiano.
Carte Strozziane. Firenze . Archivio di Stato – It’s organized so check F. Strozzi from 1500-1558.
The Medici genealogical tree is well documented. Check just in case :
www.mega.it/egni/epo/medalb.htm

Vatican archives - Archivio Segreto Vaticano – it’s very difficult to be admitted , you must be accredited academically to obtain Tessera. Both families there (all there)

P. Strozzi married a Medici around 1530.

Many Strozzi are not of the main branch and are not considered related

"Averardo de'Medici..." Submitted by LEO VAN DE PAS.
worldroots.com/foundat...cidesc.htm

Mauricio - once you paste the above link and get to the site - check the following:

III. 1 (v. 11-1-3)
-2 Gio.dei Madici, b. 1421 , d. Sept.1463 m. 20 Jan.1453 Maria Ginevra, daughter of Niccolo degli Alessandri.
Children: Clarissa de' Medici, b.1493

VI. 2 (v.3-1)
1. Lorenzo de' Medici
2 Laudomia
1. Aless. Salviati
2. Pietro Strozzi

The younger Filippo married Clarissa de'Medici , abt.1493

Check the second Filippo - 1493-1528.

Check VI-3 (v-4-1)
Cosimo I de' Medici down to Eleonora Alvarez de Toledo, Marquesa de Villafranca.

Check Villafranca and Zuniga to Osorio Pimentel and then to Martelli.

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby mauricioom » 20 Feb 2008, 19:13

OMG!
I can't thank you enough!!
I'm at the school at the moment, but as soon as i get home i'll search like crazy! i'll send mails and all, and i'll ask some people i know in Seville to find out for me how can i get in touch with Dr. Fantoni...

This is so awesome, Clarissa's mom was named Maria Ginevra! just as the Ginevra i'm searching for! might be the same person and Fantoni got it all mixed up, or maybe Clarissa named one of her daughters after her own mother!

I'll guess the people down at the Medici archive will be able to clear my doubts!!

I'll tell you all about what i find :wink:

Mauricio

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 20 Feb 2008, 19:26

:D You're very welcome and a lot of the data sources for you to research were put together by a researcher on the forum (who would like to remain behind the scenes) and I'd like to thank her for all the help she gave me to pass along to you!! :D :wink:

Let us know what you find..........it will be interesting to see what you come up with.

All the best
Elizabeth

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby janbri » 22 Feb 2008, 22:47

Hello, my name is Janice Strotz and this post is for Elizibeth. My father had always told us of a relation to the Strozzi family but I never knew of any truth. When I read your post, the one about the strozzi family living on in the u.s. as Strotz and even mentioned Robert H. Strotz from Illinois I knew it was true as Robert is a relative of mine. I am not sure if he is a uncle or a cousin, I will have to ask my Dad about that. Anyways, you seem to know quite a bit about this and I was wondering if you could give me any info as to how to find a family tree on this so I may see the relations. Thank you very much for any help.
janbri9925@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 22 Feb 2008, 23:57

Hi Janice. Happy to help if I can. I'll be sending you an email this evening some time. I hope I'll be able to help and get you pointed in the right direction.

Regards,

Elizabeth

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby Aether » 23 Feb 2008, 11:49

Hi Janice,

Elizabeth has asked for my input regarding the connection between the Strozzi family, and the Strotz family in the United States.

Besides the noble Strozzi family we find in Italy, and elsewhere, families with the same surname, and not related.

From a simple checking we note that this connection "Strozzi-Strotz" has been mentioned on
Wikipedia, listing as reference the Encyclopaedia Britannica, Eleventh Edition. But I did not find a proper authority for this information.

Further, I found that on the list of articles with "unsourced
statements" Strotz is not included.

As we know from the "Wikipedia Disclaimer" and its Policy - "anyone is welcome to add information" we must proceed with caution, and do our
outmost to validate specific entries.

This said, we must add that we (Elizabeth and myself=Aether)
are pursuing this research, and will soon provide you with several possible legitimate sources for Strotz.

To validate the connection Strotz-Strozzi it will be necessary to check sources in Italy. The Archivio di Stato , Firenze - Carte Strozziane the proper source. Also the Collegio Araldico, Rome may help to clarify this question. This will take extra time.

Further information will reach you soon.

Aether
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Amici piu' di prima saremo;
Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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Re: Old florentine families!!

Postby BillieDeKid » 23 Feb 2008, 14:58

Ciao Aether!!

Thank you for coming in to help Janice - mille grazie!!

Janice -
Can you provide your husbands name his grandfather etc? Also birth and death years of any relatives on the Strotz side that you might have and locations of where they lived and when.......and the connection to the head of the university. Any family information you can provide will be a big help.

Thanks
Elizabeth


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