My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

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Guiseppe59
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My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby Guiseppe59 » 21 Feb 2008, 20:13

My grandmother's father's name was Gaetano Grosso & her mother's name was Mariana Zitelli. They were born in the southern part of Italy in the 1860's. I do know that Mariana immigrated to New York City in the early 1900's. I can't find any more info on Gaetano.

If this sounds like an ancestor of yours. I would be happy to hear from you.

Sincerely,
Kathy

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 21 Feb 2008, 22:02

mother's name was Mariana Zitelli

Hi Kathy and Welcome to the Forum :D !

Just for reference, is this Mariana’s manifest?
Thanks! Valarie

1900 manifest
Line 13
(related to lines 14-17)
44 yrs old (born abt 1856)
Widow
Joining daughter Giovanna Grosso in NY
Last residence Torremaggiore? (Foggia, Puglia)

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 21 Feb 2008, 22:14

If your family is from Torremaggiore you can rent and view
their civil records on microfilm at your local Family History Center

Do you have everyone’s approx birth dates from their US records?
If not, we can help you look!
Valarie

Microfilms:
Topic:
Italy, Foggia, Torremaggiore - Civil registration
Titles:
#Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1929 Torremaggiore (Foggia).
Ufficio dello stato civile

Civil registration of births, marriages, deaths, banns, miscellaneous
documents, marriage documents,
supplemental documents from Torremaggiore, Foggia, Italy.
Text in Italian. Some years may be missing or out of order.

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vj
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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 21 Feb 2008, 22:46

1891-1948 New York City Death

Surname/ Given Name/ Age/ Month Day Year/
Certificate Number/ County/ Born

Grosso Marianna Z 74 y Jan 24 1936 2140 Manhattan 1861 - 1862

Great NYC resource in case you haven’t already used it:
Dr Steve Morse One Step Search Pages for New York
NY Naturalization
NYC Birth Records 1891-1902 requires ancestry.com subscription
NYC Groom Index 1864-1936
NYC Bride Index ????-1937
NYC Death Records 1891-1948
New York Cemeteries (Mts Hebron, Carmel & Zion)

Ordering NYC Vital Records
New York City Archives

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 21 Feb 2008, 23:20

Kathy,
Is this your family page on ancestry?
http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/person.asp ... 1790876694

It's really nice :D !
Valarie

Note: if you're still missing Marianna from the 1930 census
it's on ancestry under 'Manon Grosso'
8O

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby Guiseppe59 » 22 Feb 2008, 23:54

Hi Valerie,

Yes, that's my family tree. Thank you for the complement - it took me many months to get info for my tree. Some of the information I got on Ancestry & on Rootsweb, some info I just put in from other sources but am not sure about.

Yes, I know about the 1900 Manifest but I wasn't sure if they were my relatives. I put it in anyway. Torremaggiore was listed but so was Afragola. Unfortunately, my relatives that would know have already passed away. I wondered how I could find out the info on where they originated. If you could help, that would be awesome. Whatever their approximate bithdates is in that family tree - JOYCE Family tree.

If you could find out what happened to Gaetano - where & when he died & where he originated, that would be awesome too !

Thank you for the info you sent already.

Sincerely,
Kathy :D

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 23 Feb 2008, 00:12

I wondered how I could find out the info on where they originated


Hey Kathy!
That is the thing isn't it :wink: .
Took me years to find mine.
Hopefully we can find some more clues.

That manifest is something else - two towns not even near
each other.
Perhaps we can locate another family manifest?
Military records can be a big help too.

I've ordered my family's Vital Records from NYC.
They're great people to deal with, the copies were
sent within a month and they were all clear copies.
But, none had the town of origin, not even the naturalization
documents (pre 1906).

We'll all see what we can do to help.

Valarie

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 23 Feb 2008, 00:46

Sorting out the Sep 1900 manifest
Lines 13 thru 17

Marianna Zitelli 44 (abt 1856)
- widow
- last residence Torremaggiore (Foggia, Apulia?)
- joining daughter Giovanna Grossa/o at 385 Broome Street in NY (Manhattan)

Probably Marianna’s daughter
Amalia Grossa/o 20 (abt 1880)
- single
- last residence Torremaggiore (Foggia, Apulia?)
- passage paid by mother
- joining Giovanna Grossa/o at 385 Broome Street in NY (Manhattan)

Marianna’s sister/cousin??
Maria Zitelli 39 (abt 1861)
- widow
- last residence Afragola (Napoli, Campania?)
- joining relative Giovanna Grossa/o at 385 Broome Street in NY (Manhattan)

Probably Maria’s daughter
Assunta Zitelli 16 (abt 1884)
- single
- last residence Afragola (Napoli, Campania?)
- passage paid by mother
- joining relative Giovanna Grossa/o at 385 Broome Street in NY (Manhattan)

Probably Maria’s daughter
Rosa Zitelli 7 (abt 1893)
- single
- last residence Afragola (Napoli, Campania?)
- passage paid by mother
- joining relative Giovanna Grossa/o at 385 Broome Street in NY (Manhattan)

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 23 Feb 2008, 01:12

Kathy, using some of the information from your family page on ancestry:
Gaetano & Marianna’s son Nazzario

1903 manifest
Nazzareno Grosso (transcribed as Grasso) 22 (abt 1881)
- naturalization notation: 2X38722 4/20/36
- last residence Torremaggiore
- joining mother Marianna Zitella at Bleeker? St
Sister Caterina 20 (abt 1882)
Brother Matteo 15 (abt 1887

1918 WWI Card

1942 WWII Card
Nazzario Grosso
Born 28 Jul 1881
Born in Foggia

I think your town is probably Torremaggiore in Foggia
Since Gaetano died before Marianna emigrated, your next
step is probably the microfilms at the Family History Center.

What do you think?
Valarie

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 23 Feb 2008, 01:19

Kathy, if you think we've got the correct location,
when you’re ready ... :wink:
Valarie

Link to Torremaggiore microfilm information:
Torremaggiore Civil Records 1809-1929

---
A great place to start:

FamilySearch Home Page
Includes how to find your nearest local Family History Center
and a free genealogy program for downloading
to your computer (PAF) to organize your research.

Italian Record Research from the FamilySearch research guides:
Italy Research Outline
---

Three terrific books
to help you find, read & understand your records:

Italian Genealogical Records
How to Use Italian Civil, Ecclesiastical, &
Other Records in Family History Research

By Tafford R Cole
google book link

A Genealogist’s Guide to
Discovering Your Italian Ancestors
How to find and record your unique heritage
By Lynn Nelson
google book link

Finding Italian Roots
By John Philip Colletta, PhD
google book link
---

More on the Family History Center

Two very helpful essays from Trish, one of our forum members
(brujaojos):

[url=http://genealogy-forum.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=13&sid=6dfbede7a1c9597e04f8ea027820911b]What is FamilySearch.org
[/url] and
Steps for Finding Microfilm at the Family History Center

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Guiseppe59
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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby Guiseppe59 » 26 Feb 2008, 03:22

Hi Valarie,

Thank you for your help. I am just guessing but regarding the 1900 manifest, Assunta & Rosa Zitelli may be Marianna's daughters because my grandmother is Assunta Grosso & her sister is Rosa Grosso. Maybe Marianna listed her children's first names with her maiden name for the voyage (instead of their real surname of Grosso). Could that be possible?

Anyway, I am taking your useful info to the Family History Center near me. I was there once before but didn't know what to look for. At least I have something that will give me a clue.

Please let me know what you think about the above question.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,
Kathy

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Re: My elusive ancestors - Grosso & Zitelli

Postby vj » 26 Feb 2008, 14:17

I am just guessing but regarding the 1900 manifest, Assunta & Rosa Zitelli may be Marianna's daughters because my grandmother is Assunta Grosso & her sister is Rosa Grosso. Maybe Marianna listed her children's first names with her maiden name for the voyage (instead of their real surname of Grosso). Could that be possible?


Kathy,
My guess is you're right.
I think the error was the ditto marks from Maria's information.
If Maria had been listed after Rosa the relationship would have
been clearer. It was not unusual to have immediate family listed
out of order on the manifest.
I would start with the Torremaggiore films. I think you'll find the
folks at your Family History Center very helpful in helping you
sort out which film years to order.
Please update us on how you do when you get a chance.
Valarie


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