Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Canada

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debbth
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Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Canada

Postby debbth » 13 Apr 2008, 18:12

I am looking for my maternal grandfather's brother who I believe came to Canada prior to 1922. My grandfather and grandmother came in May of 1922 and his brother was apparently here already.

I am looking for Antonio Viale from Melma, Treviso (Northern Italy). Melma is now Silea. He was likely born in Sant 'Elena the same as my grandfather (and grandmother as far as I know). His parents are Giovanni Viale and Giuseppena Maionetti (??).

My grandfather was Sebastiano Viale and my grandmother was Concetta Scomparin. We have always thought they arrived at Ellis Island. A search shows them listed as leaving Naples on Mar 31 1922 aboard the Taormina and arriving at Ellis Island on April 14th 1922, their final destination is noted as Toronto, Ontario. However there is a notation "Immigrants cancellated." I never knew what that meant but I now have documents to say they arrived in Quebec, Canada aboard the Caserta on May 22, 1922.

It is thought that they probably left Italy for New York on the Taormina and from there boarded the Caserta for Canada. This leaves me with another question: If they arrived at Ellis Island on April 14 and didn't arrive in Quebec until May 22, where were they during that month and why would they not be processed on the original manifest (Taormina)?

My grandparents lived in Toronto, Ontario. My grandfather died in 1927. My grandmother died in 1983.

According to the new information I have, my grandparents were going to my grandmother's uncle, Ferdinando Busato at West Hill, Ontario.

Because my grandfather died so young, we lost touch with that side of our family.

I know Antonio lived in Timmins, Ontario and had something like four children before he returned to Italy and ended up with 11 children in total (or something like that). I do not have any information as to his birth date. My grandfather was born in 1895 and had 9 siblings. I would guess that Antonio was older but that is just a guess.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Debbie

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 13 Apr 2008, 18:24

Hi Debbie!
Just for everyone’s reference, your 1922 manifest
If they arrived at Ellis Island on April 14 and didn't arrive in Quebec until May 22,
where were they during that month and why would they not be processed on the original
manifest (Taormina)?

1922 manifest
page 2
Unless their names were listed elsewhere on the manifest (rare),
it appears they did not sail

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 13 Apr 2008, 19:01

Debbie,
Just in case you haven’t seen this from ancestry.com
Sebastiano’s death record listing his parent’s names
Valarie

1927 death record

Ontario, Canada Deaths, 1869-1934, York 1927

Name: Sebastiano Viale
Death Date: 18 Aug 1927
Death Location: York
Born 22 Mar 1895 in St Elaine
edit: corrected comune location to:
Sant'Elena, comune of Silea, province Treviso, region Veneto

Father John Viale
Venice, Italy
Mother Josephine Madegline (Maddalena?) XXX
Venice, Italy

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 13 Apr 2008, 19:56

Have you sorted out the Busato’s on this manifest headed to Toronto?
Includes possible uncle Ferdinando & his wife & his father
Valarie
According to the new information I have, my grandparents were going
to my grandmother's uncle, Ferdinando Busato at West Hill, Ontario.


1908 manifest
1908 pg 2

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby debbth » 13 Apr 2008, 20:02

I have a copy of my grandfather's death record. The names of his parents are Canadianized. I have their names in the Italian form in my family tree. I remember how excited I was when I found that record (also a record of my infant uncle's death the same year). I just wish everything could be that easy!!

I am having trouble giving up the idea they came through Ellis Island. Both my mother and my aunt believe my grandparents arrived via New York. On the Tamorina manifest they are assigned another number at the bottom of the page so I am wondering about that as well.

I thought I had read something about immigrants that had Canada as their destination not actually being processed on Ellis Island. I wish I could remember where I read that.

Is there anywhere I can find passenger lists for Canadian port arrivals?

Thanks for your help.
Debbie

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 13 Apr 2008, 20:06

Same Busato family on 1911 census?
1911 Canadian census

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 13 Apr 2008, 20:09

Is there anywhere I can find passenger lists for Canadian port arrivals?


I tried the ones on this page w/o any luck...
http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/Resource.htm#pax
(list of ships to Quebec ends with 1921)

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby debbth » 14 Apr 2008, 01:32

Thanks for all your help. The Busato's on the manifest and the ones on the Census are the same Ferdinando Busato is married to Maria (Mary) Scomparin who is the sister of my great grandfather. My mother and my aunt use to spend summers on their farm in West Hill and also when they moved to another farm in another area that is now part of Greater Toronto, Ontario.

I am still no closer to finding information for the Viale side of the family. I've been told that one of my grandmother's sisters married a Viale (cousin to my grandfather) in Italy.

My great grandfather, Andrea Scomparin was a policeman and mayor of Sant' Elena (I believe) or Melma as it would have been called back then (Silea now). Is there anywhere I can search to find more info on this?
Thanks again,
Debbie

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby BillieDeKid » 14 Apr 2008, 12:44

Edit to remove incorrect information (links)

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby wishyou » 14 Apr 2008, 20:58

As I know (but I'm almost sure) Sant'Elena di Silea never had a town hall.
It always been an hamlet di Silea.
In the period 1818-1835,under the Austrian Empire, some hamlets were elected to Comune (and then turned to hamlet), but it is not the case of Sant'Elena.

A curiosity: Melma means mud. The name of town came from a river which goes through the town, the Melma. In 1933 they decided to change the name in Silea, which takes the name from the other river who goes through the town, the Sile.

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby BillieDeKid » 14 Apr 2008, 22:40

vj wrote:Debbie,
Just in case you haven’t seen this from ancestry.com
Sebastiano’s death record listing his parent’s names
Valarie

1927 death record

Ontario, Canada Deaths, 1869-1934, York 1927

Name: Sebastiano Viale
Death Date: 18 Aug 1927
Death Location: York
Born 22 Mar 1895 in St Elaine
(Sant’ Elena, Padua, Veneto)
Father John Viale
Venice, Italy
Mother Josephine Madegline (Maddalena?) XXX
Venice, Italy


Hi wish you, the link I provided for records is for Sant'Elena,Padua,Vento based on the informaton Deb supplied and vj's findings. If I'm in error and need to remove the link (edit my post) please let me know.

Thanks
Elizabeth

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 14 Apr 2008, 22:48

Hi Elizabeth :D
It looks like my error, I'll fix it.
Valarie

There are two:
Sant'Elena, comune of Sant'Elena - province: Padova - region: Veneto
Sant'Elena, comune of Silea - province: Treviso - region: Veneto

Essgee gave the information on where to
write on this thread
http://canadian.genealogyforum.eu/index ... topic&t=82

Thanks! Valarie

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby Essgee » 14 Apr 2008, 23:07

I had already posted on the Canadian site the problem of not having the records on microfilm. She is going to have to write to the town to get the records, I believe. http://canadian.genealogyforum.eu/index ... topic&t=82

The problem is trying to find the location of the brother...or at least trips back and forth between Canada and Italy. I don't know what is available on line or in repositories for Canadian ships' lists which is why I suggested she post to the Italy forum...you guys always find something.

Based on the first record of the Taormina, it is obvious that they did not sail on that ship. It will be a time waster to try and find where they were in the "meantime"....they just cancelled their booking and sailed at the later date. The reason may or may not be available, but it still doesn't address where Giuseppe is... And I think that information will be on Canadian documents or in Silea itself.

Guess I should have posted that this started on the Canadian forum to make it a little easier. My error.

But you guys are doing a great job!

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby BillieDeKid » 14 Apr 2008, 23:16

No problem vj......my error not yours.

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Re: Viale, Antonio: finding Italian relative who came to Can

Postby vj » 14 Apr 2008, 23:48

Guess I should have posted that this started on the Canadian forum to make it a little easier.

Hey essgee :D !
Actually I should have made the connection that I had the
wrong province when I read your post yesterday.
Valarie

Elizabeth! :D ,
I should have looked closer to make sure I had the
correct location!
Valarie

As I know (but I'm almost sure) Sant'Elena di Silea never had a town hall.
It always been an hamlet di Silea.
In the period 1818-1835,under the Austrian Empire, some hamlets were elected to Comune (and then turned to hamlet), but it is not the case of Sant'Elena.

A curiosity: Melma means mud. The name of town came from a river which goes through the town, the Melma. In 1933 they decided to change the name in Silea, which takes the name from the other river who goes through the town, the Sile.


wishyou :D !
Thanks for the great background information.
Valarie


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